Vreemde_Vogel
03-05-05, 15:54
Of zou dit toch echt waar zijn? :argwaan:
Alleged Meeting Between Hussein And Rumsfeld Ends In No Deal
May 03, 2005
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited For Publication By JUS
Magazine Publishes Alleged Transcript Of Meeting Between Hussein And Rumsfeld
The Egyptian magazine al-Usbu‘ on Monday, 20 May 2005, published what it said was the text of a conversation between Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld on his latest trip to Baghdad during which he visited the imprisoned ex-Iraqi leader. Al-Usbu‘ reports that informed political sources had disclosed the details of the meeting
Here is the complete transcript. We caution readers that this report may be an deliberately leaked document considering it was published in Egyptain press. Egypt is aligned with the US and is widely viewed as “walking the fence” between America and the Arab world.
Alleged Minutes Of The Meeting Between President Saddam Hussein And US Secretary Of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
At the beginning of the meeting President Saddam appeared extremely calm, perhaps he was surprised that his visitor was Rumsfeld, but he did not show any nervous tension. Rumsfeld began the discussion:
Rumsfeld: I have come to meet you to talk with out about the situation in Iraq. We have been in communication with some of your supporters inside and outside Iraq and they advised us to listen to you.
Hussein: And what is it that you want? Your forces have occupied the territory of noble Iraq; you brought down the ruling regime without any legal basis; you attacked the sovereignty of an independent, free, sovereign country; and you committed crimes that history will record as testimony against your bloodstained civilization. So what more do you want after all that?
Rumsfeld (trying to conceal his anger): There no call for going into the past. I’ve come specially to present you a clear and specific offer and I want to hear from you a clear and specific answer.
Hussein (mockingly): I suppose you’ve come to apologize and return authority to the Iraqis.
Rumsfeld: We have nothing to apologize for. You were a danger to your neighbors. You were trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and you practiced dictatorship over your people. So it was natural for us to extend our hands to help the people of Iraq to rid themselves of the perils they faced for more than thirty years.
Hussein: I know that you’re ignorant of history and I know that your president is no less ignorant. But it seems that you’ve been telling lies for so long that you have come to believe them yourselves. If you mean by “our neighbors” the Zionist Entity, then, yes, we really were posing a danger to it and preparing to liberate our plundered land in Palestine. This is the trust of every Arab person, not just Iraqis, for that land is Arab and its people are Arab and the Zionists have done nothing but occupy the land. They came to us from every corner of the world with your help and that of the old colonial powers. But if you mean Kuwait, I would like to ask you: Have you withdrawn from Kuwait or not?
Rumsfeld: These are security issues. Besides, between us and Kuwait and the other Gulf States there are security agreements. We came in based on their request to defend them from your threats.
Hussein: Isn’t it funny to entrust the wolf to guard the sheep? The Kuwaiti people are an Arab people, and Kuwait is Iraqi territory. So I would ask you to go and read up on history well, except that I am sure that you will never be able to grasp it.
Rumsfeld: Enough of this chatter. I am offering you . . .
Hussein (cuts him off): Before you offer me your rotten goods, I want to ask you: did you find any weapons of mass destruction or not?
Rumsfeld (confused): We haven’t found any so far. But we definitely will find them one day. Do you deny that you had the intention of making a nuclear bomb?
Hussein: We had no weapons of mass destruction since 1991. We were truthful when we spoke to the International Inspection Team and we were truthful in our letters to Kofi Annan. And you knew those facts, but you were looking for any false excuse to occupy Iraq and overthrow the legal authorities.
Rumsfeld: The Iraqis greeted us happily and welcomed us and the reason was the bloody practices of your regime for all the years in which you ruled Iraq.
Hussein: I ask you, Mr. Rumsfeld . . . Enough lying. You are the ones who opened up cascades of blood on the land of Iraq. You plotted against us and you came with some traitors to take over rule of the great land of Iraq.
Rumsfeld: The ones you call traitors were chosen as their leaders by the Iraqi people by democratic means and clean elections, such as never took place while you ruled the country.
Hussein: I knew that you came with a band of traitors with [Jalal] at-Talibani in their front ranks (laughs mockingly). Great Iraq being ruled by at-Talibani and al-Ja‘fari, isn’t that ridiculous? And what kind of elections are you talking about. Is it possible to hold free elections, as you call them, when our country is occupied? Mr. Rumsfeld, we have learned from history that occupiers come only with their lackeys and agents, then you want after all that to convince me that the people of Iraq are enjoying freedom and democracy? You must really be delirious.
Rumsfeld (trying very hard to control his anger): You are in isolation and don’t know the facts of what is going on outside. The Iraqi people have been freed from your oppression. If they saw you or any of you men in the street, they would destroy you!!
Hussein: And I bet you that if you were able to announce where you are in Iraq, if the Iraqi Resistance learned where you were, you wouldn’t be able to get out alive. I want to pass on some advice that you must convey to your stupid president: you must tell him to save what remains of his troops. Death is stalking them in every place and history will not forgive him.
Rumsfeld: I came to talk with you about the ‘terrorist’ operations that your men are inciting and carrying out. Your men recently carried out a foul attack against Abu Ghurayb prison where more than 50 Americans were killed or wounded, and they killed a number of those in custody on various charges as well. Your men are getting help from terrorists from every corner of the world and they are threatening the democratic experiment in Iraq.
Hussein: What exactly is it that you want?
Rumsfeld: I’m making you one offer and that is that you will be released and can chose for yourself a place of exile freely, in any country you like, on condition that you go on television and issue a condemnation of terrorism and order your men to stop these acts.
Hussein: Have you obtained the agreement of your president to this offer?
Rumsfeld: Yes, this offer has been agreed on in a meeting in which the President, Vice President, Secretary of State, and Chief of Intelligence took part. And I have been authorized to inform you of this offer.
Hussein: It’s a trifling offer.
Rumsfeld (with a sigh): We’re also ready to bring elements close to you into the government.
Hussein: And what else?
Rumsfeld: You will be given generous financial assistance and security protection for you and your family in the country of your choice.
Hussein: Do you want to hear my conditions?
Rumsfeld: I would love to.
Hussein (with an air of superciliousness and superiority): I want first from you that you set a time table for your withdrawal from Iraq and that your government commit itself to it before the world and that you begin the withdrawal immediately.
Secondly, I ask you to release immediately all the Iraqi and Arab prisoners in the prisons you have set up or in which you have taken the freedom of tens of thousands of honorable people of Iraq.
Thirdly, I ask from you to pledge to grant full compensation for the material losses that afflicted the Iraqi people as a result of your aggression against our country since the Mother of Battles in 1991 and until today. And I accept the assistance of an Arab and International Committee in estimating the extent of those losses.
Fourth, I ask that you return the money that you and your men plundered from the treasuries of Iraq, and its oil, in particular that criminal [L. Paul] Bremer and his gang of traitors and renegades.
Fifth, the return of the artifacts that you stole and gave to the archaeological artifact mafia. These are treasures that are beyond all the monetary value in the world, because they carry the history of Iraq and its civilization. It’s true that you don’t have any civilization or history and that the lifespan of your country is no more than a few hundred years, but all that must not serve to justify your theft and your hatred for the civilization of Iraq and the wealth of Iraq.
And sixth, you must hand over the weapons of mass destruction if you have found any and return to us the lives of all the martyrs whose lives you took and to return the honor of the noble women of Iraq whom you dishonored.
Rumsfeld: Is this some kind of joke?
Hussein: No! This is the bitter reality. . . which you know, Mr. Rumsfeld. You have committed the greatest crime in history against a peaceful Arab country. We met together in the 1980s. Do you remember your offers?
Rumsfeld: Enough of the past. We are reassessing our positions towards you and towards a number of powers that have been hostile to us in the past. We have decided to hold dialogue with moderate Islamicists and we have no objection to their coming to power through the ballot box. More important than that we have decided to open channels for dialogue with ‘terrorist’ organizations like Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and Hizb Allah, which is pro-Iranian, and also with other fundamentalist organizations in the whole world. We even have a plan for contacting the Taliban movement in Afghanistan to study the possibility of their participation in power, in exchange for their giving up arms.
Hussein: So you have begun to rethink your erroneous course?
Rumsfeld: It is a natural development of events. We are striving to spread democracy in all countries and movements subject to tyranny.
Hussein: May you prosper if you are truthful. I know your real aim, though. If you were really truthful, then you and your allies must begin immediately by withdrawing from Iraq. And you would also have to depart from your position of support for ‘Israel’. But I know that your president is stubborn and arrogant and is not telling the truth.
Rumsfeld: He is a democratically elected president, not a bloody ruler like you.
Hussein: Terror is your product and lying is your method.
Rumsfeld: This offer is a historic opportunity for you. You will be released and we will consult with you in everything related to the running of Iraq. If you refuse this offer, the opportunity will not be fulfilled.
Hussein: I am not looking for opportunities. I am not looking for a way to save my neck from the gallows that you have set up for all of Iraq. If I wanted that I would have accepted the Russian offer and saved my sons and grandson from martyrdom. I don’t know what has become of my family and my daughters and grandchildren. But believe me I am concerned with every Iraqi citizen and the future of great Iraq more than I am concerned with myself and my family.
Through your men, you previously made an offer that if I declare that weapons of mass destruction were smuggled to Syria, you said that in return you would release me. I rejected that then and I reject it again now.
Rumsfeld: I don’t want a rejection from you. I want you to think about it. We are continuing our reassessment of our stances at the present time. We want to stop the bloodshed on both sides. And therefore we have made this offer out of the logic of power and not the logic of weakness.
We asked Jalal at-Talibani to make a statement denying any intention of executing you as a sign of good intentions on our part. We are ready to reassess our whole position on the political arrangement in Iraq as a whole and to discuss this matter with you and with your men.
Hussein: Are you ready to withdraw or not?
Rumsfeld: We can possibly discuss redeployment. Our forces have prepared bases for a long stay. We can possibly withdraw from streets and cities, but we will remain in the bases for some time.
Hussein: Then you want a new stooge to add to that line of stooges. No Mr. Rumsfeld. Don’t forget that you are talking with Saddam Hussein the President of the Republic of Iraq.
Rumsfeld: But you lost power.
Hussein: I have nothing left but honor and honor cannot be bought and sold.
Rumsfeld: But life is priceless.
Hussein: There is no value to life without honor. You robbed Iraq of its honor when you trampled on its land and we will regain our honor whether Saddam Hussein remains or dies a martyr.
Rumsfeld: Your supporters with whom we have been discussing told us that you were the first and last decision maker. Were they expecting this reaction from you?
Hussein: Definitely, they know that Saddam Hussein cannot back away at the expense of his homeland and honor.
Rumsfeld: History will hold you responsible for the blood that is being shed in Iraq.
Hussein: Rather history will judge you for your crimes. I warned you before, saying that you would commit suicide on the walls of Baghdad. And here you are paying the price. I want you to go to London and read the records of the British Foreign Office and learn something about the struggle of the Iraqi people against your British friends who are now repeating their mistakes and fighting with you. The Iraqi people are a stubborn people who do not fear death. The Resistance is stronger than you imagine. So I promise you that you will have even more.
Alleged Meeting Between Hussein And Rumsfeld Ends In No Deal
May 03, 2005
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice; Edited For Publication By JUS
Magazine Publishes Alleged Transcript Of Meeting Between Hussein And Rumsfeld
The Egyptian magazine al-Usbu‘ on Monday, 20 May 2005, published what it said was the text of a conversation between Saddam Hussein and Donald Rumsfeld on his latest trip to Baghdad during which he visited the imprisoned ex-Iraqi leader. Al-Usbu‘ reports that informed political sources had disclosed the details of the meeting
Here is the complete transcript. We caution readers that this report may be an deliberately leaked document considering it was published in Egyptain press. Egypt is aligned with the US and is widely viewed as “walking the fence” between America and the Arab world.
Alleged Minutes Of The Meeting Between President Saddam Hussein And US Secretary Of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
At the beginning of the meeting President Saddam appeared extremely calm, perhaps he was surprised that his visitor was Rumsfeld, but he did not show any nervous tension. Rumsfeld began the discussion:
Rumsfeld: I have come to meet you to talk with out about the situation in Iraq. We have been in communication with some of your supporters inside and outside Iraq and they advised us to listen to you.
Hussein: And what is it that you want? Your forces have occupied the territory of noble Iraq; you brought down the ruling regime without any legal basis; you attacked the sovereignty of an independent, free, sovereign country; and you committed crimes that history will record as testimony against your bloodstained civilization. So what more do you want after all that?
Rumsfeld (trying to conceal his anger): There no call for going into the past. I’ve come specially to present you a clear and specific offer and I want to hear from you a clear and specific answer.
Hussein (mockingly): I suppose you’ve come to apologize and return authority to the Iraqis.
Rumsfeld: We have nothing to apologize for. You were a danger to your neighbors. You were trying to acquire weapons of mass destruction, and you practiced dictatorship over your people. So it was natural for us to extend our hands to help the people of Iraq to rid themselves of the perils they faced for more than thirty years.
Hussein: I know that you’re ignorant of history and I know that your president is no less ignorant. But it seems that you’ve been telling lies for so long that you have come to believe them yourselves. If you mean by “our neighbors” the Zionist Entity, then, yes, we really were posing a danger to it and preparing to liberate our plundered land in Palestine. This is the trust of every Arab person, not just Iraqis, for that land is Arab and its people are Arab and the Zionists have done nothing but occupy the land. They came to us from every corner of the world with your help and that of the old colonial powers. But if you mean Kuwait, I would like to ask you: Have you withdrawn from Kuwait or not?
Rumsfeld: These are security issues. Besides, between us and Kuwait and the other Gulf States there are security agreements. We came in based on their request to defend them from your threats.
Hussein: Isn’t it funny to entrust the wolf to guard the sheep? The Kuwaiti people are an Arab people, and Kuwait is Iraqi territory. So I would ask you to go and read up on history well, except that I am sure that you will never be able to grasp it.
Rumsfeld: Enough of this chatter. I am offering you . . .
Hussein (cuts him off): Before you offer me your rotten goods, I want to ask you: did you find any weapons of mass destruction or not?
Rumsfeld (confused): We haven’t found any so far. But we definitely will find them one day. Do you deny that you had the intention of making a nuclear bomb?
Hussein: We had no weapons of mass destruction since 1991. We were truthful when we spoke to the International Inspection Team and we were truthful in our letters to Kofi Annan. And you knew those facts, but you were looking for any false excuse to occupy Iraq and overthrow the legal authorities.
Rumsfeld: The Iraqis greeted us happily and welcomed us and the reason was the bloody practices of your regime for all the years in which you ruled Iraq.
Hussein: I ask you, Mr. Rumsfeld . . . Enough lying. You are the ones who opened up cascades of blood on the land of Iraq. You plotted against us and you came with some traitors to take over rule of the great land of Iraq.
Rumsfeld: The ones you call traitors were chosen as their leaders by the Iraqi people by democratic means and clean elections, such as never took place while you ruled the country.
Hussein: I knew that you came with a band of traitors with [Jalal] at-Talibani in their front ranks (laughs mockingly). Great Iraq being ruled by at-Talibani and al-Ja‘fari, isn’t that ridiculous? And what kind of elections are you talking about. Is it possible to hold free elections, as you call them, when our country is occupied? Mr. Rumsfeld, we have learned from history that occupiers come only with their lackeys and agents, then you want after all that to convince me that the people of Iraq are enjoying freedom and democracy? You must really be delirious.
Rumsfeld (trying very hard to control his anger): You are in isolation and don’t know the facts of what is going on outside. The Iraqi people have been freed from your oppression. If they saw you or any of you men in the street, they would destroy you!!
Hussein: And I bet you that if you were able to announce where you are in Iraq, if the Iraqi Resistance learned where you were, you wouldn’t be able to get out alive. I want to pass on some advice that you must convey to your stupid president: you must tell him to save what remains of his troops. Death is stalking them in every place and history will not forgive him.
Rumsfeld: I came to talk with you about the ‘terrorist’ operations that your men are inciting and carrying out. Your men recently carried out a foul attack against Abu Ghurayb prison where more than 50 Americans were killed or wounded, and they killed a number of those in custody on various charges as well. Your men are getting help from terrorists from every corner of the world and they are threatening the democratic experiment in Iraq.
Hussein: What exactly is it that you want?
Rumsfeld: I’m making you one offer and that is that you will be released and can chose for yourself a place of exile freely, in any country you like, on condition that you go on television and issue a condemnation of terrorism and order your men to stop these acts.
Hussein: Have you obtained the agreement of your president to this offer?
Rumsfeld: Yes, this offer has been agreed on in a meeting in which the President, Vice President, Secretary of State, and Chief of Intelligence took part. And I have been authorized to inform you of this offer.
Hussein: It’s a trifling offer.
Rumsfeld (with a sigh): We’re also ready to bring elements close to you into the government.
Hussein: And what else?
Rumsfeld: You will be given generous financial assistance and security protection for you and your family in the country of your choice.
Hussein: Do you want to hear my conditions?
Rumsfeld: I would love to.
Hussein (with an air of superciliousness and superiority): I want first from you that you set a time table for your withdrawal from Iraq and that your government commit itself to it before the world and that you begin the withdrawal immediately.
Secondly, I ask you to release immediately all the Iraqi and Arab prisoners in the prisons you have set up or in which you have taken the freedom of tens of thousands of honorable people of Iraq.
Thirdly, I ask from you to pledge to grant full compensation for the material losses that afflicted the Iraqi people as a result of your aggression against our country since the Mother of Battles in 1991 and until today. And I accept the assistance of an Arab and International Committee in estimating the extent of those losses.
Fourth, I ask that you return the money that you and your men plundered from the treasuries of Iraq, and its oil, in particular that criminal [L. Paul] Bremer and his gang of traitors and renegades.
Fifth, the return of the artifacts that you stole and gave to the archaeological artifact mafia. These are treasures that are beyond all the monetary value in the world, because they carry the history of Iraq and its civilization. It’s true that you don’t have any civilization or history and that the lifespan of your country is no more than a few hundred years, but all that must not serve to justify your theft and your hatred for the civilization of Iraq and the wealth of Iraq.
And sixth, you must hand over the weapons of mass destruction if you have found any and return to us the lives of all the martyrs whose lives you took and to return the honor of the noble women of Iraq whom you dishonored.
Rumsfeld: Is this some kind of joke?
Hussein: No! This is the bitter reality. . . which you know, Mr. Rumsfeld. You have committed the greatest crime in history against a peaceful Arab country. We met together in the 1980s. Do you remember your offers?
Rumsfeld: Enough of the past. We are reassessing our positions towards you and towards a number of powers that have been hostile to us in the past. We have decided to hold dialogue with moderate Islamicists and we have no objection to their coming to power through the ballot box. More important than that we have decided to open channels for dialogue with ‘terrorist’ organizations like Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and Hizb Allah, which is pro-Iranian, and also with other fundamentalist organizations in the whole world. We even have a plan for contacting the Taliban movement in Afghanistan to study the possibility of their participation in power, in exchange for their giving up arms.
Hussein: So you have begun to rethink your erroneous course?
Rumsfeld: It is a natural development of events. We are striving to spread democracy in all countries and movements subject to tyranny.
Hussein: May you prosper if you are truthful. I know your real aim, though. If you were really truthful, then you and your allies must begin immediately by withdrawing from Iraq. And you would also have to depart from your position of support for ‘Israel’. But I know that your president is stubborn and arrogant and is not telling the truth.
Rumsfeld: He is a democratically elected president, not a bloody ruler like you.
Hussein: Terror is your product and lying is your method.
Rumsfeld: This offer is a historic opportunity for you. You will be released and we will consult with you in everything related to the running of Iraq. If you refuse this offer, the opportunity will not be fulfilled.
Hussein: I am not looking for opportunities. I am not looking for a way to save my neck from the gallows that you have set up for all of Iraq. If I wanted that I would have accepted the Russian offer and saved my sons and grandson from martyrdom. I don’t know what has become of my family and my daughters and grandchildren. But believe me I am concerned with every Iraqi citizen and the future of great Iraq more than I am concerned with myself and my family.
Through your men, you previously made an offer that if I declare that weapons of mass destruction were smuggled to Syria, you said that in return you would release me. I rejected that then and I reject it again now.
Rumsfeld: I don’t want a rejection from you. I want you to think about it. We are continuing our reassessment of our stances at the present time. We want to stop the bloodshed on both sides. And therefore we have made this offer out of the logic of power and not the logic of weakness.
We asked Jalal at-Talibani to make a statement denying any intention of executing you as a sign of good intentions on our part. We are ready to reassess our whole position on the political arrangement in Iraq as a whole and to discuss this matter with you and with your men.
Hussein: Are you ready to withdraw or not?
Rumsfeld: We can possibly discuss redeployment. Our forces have prepared bases for a long stay. We can possibly withdraw from streets and cities, but we will remain in the bases for some time.
Hussein: Then you want a new stooge to add to that line of stooges. No Mr. Rumsfeld. Don’t forget that you are talking with Saddam Hussein the President of the Republic of Iraq.
Rumsfeld: But you lost power.
Hussein: I have nothing left but honor and honor cannot be bought and sold.
Rumsfeld: But life is priceless.
Hussein: There is no value to life without honor. You robbed Iraq of its honor when you trampled on its land and we will regain our honor whether Saddam Hussein remains or dies a martyr.
Rumsfeld: Your supporters with whom we have been discussing told us that you were the first and last decision maker. Were they expecting this reaction from you?
Hussein: Definitely, they know that Saddam Hussein cannot back away at the expense of his homeland and honor.
Rumsfeld: History will hold you responsible for the blood that is being shed in Iraq.
Hussein: Rather history will judge you for your crimes. I warned you before, saying that you would commit suicide on the walls of Baghdad. And here you are paying the price. I want you to go to London and read the records of the British Foreign Office and learn something about the struggle of the Iraqi people against your British friends who are now repeating their mistakes and fighting with you. The Iraqi people are a stubborn people who do not fear death. The Resistance is stronger than you imagine. So I promise you that you will have even more.