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Coolassprov MC
18-12-07, 19:44
http://www.islamworld.net/bible-speak.html

Let The Bible Speak

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABDUL RAHMAN DIMASHKIAH
___________________________




Introduction
--------------

In the past, when so many attacks were launched against Islam
under an open and unabashed crusader flag, various popes used to
encourage some fanatics to write booklets containing lies against
Islam and against the Prophet of Islam, distorting his message and
reviling his religion.

After the church withdrew from this activity, the number of
these attacks was obviously reduced. Yet they did not stop
altogether. They took another form under a different banner, the
pretext of freedom of expression. Only the approach has changed.

An apostate and heretic called Salman Rushdi wrote a book
in which he reviled Islam, describing verses of the Quran as satanic
and revealed by the Devil. He abused the Prophet of Islam, his
companions and his wives, describing the latter as adulteresses.

Britain, defender of freedom rushed headlong to support and
defend this man using as a pretext, the necessity of freedom of
expression, which is in this case, the freedom of revile and curse.
Even in the west no one has a right to shout fire in a crowded hall
and escape the punishment for causing a possibly fatal panic.

Yet one month before the publication of Rushdi's book, the
partisans of free speech violated freedom of expression when
they banned the book, SPY CATCHER by Peter Wright. This
inconsistency makes it clear that their freedom is to do as they
desire, not as people of other religions earnestly request.

And I wonder if we were to complain to the British Judges
against a person who falsely accused me of being adulterer, what
then their judgment will be?!! Would they defend him and justify his
right to slander?

And if not, why do they use a deviant standard of justice
concerning Rushdi's book which reviled those who are more
beloved to us than our fathers, sisters, wives and daughters?

It seems to me that perhaps the one or two centuries of peaceful
coexistence has not made British neo-crusaders forger their ancient
hatred of Islam.

The book of Salman Rushdi reviled many more beside Islam
and the Prophet.
On (page 461), he states, "nigger eats white man's [shit]".
On (page 529), he mocked the black brethren by saying "black
shit is bad".
On (page 80) is found: ["the sister fucking British-shits"].
The word [Fucking] used in his book fifty-two (52) times.
It describes Margaret Thatcher as a [Bitch], he also mocks her
name by using the word [Toicher] instead of her name
Thatcher. He was also conspiring to have one night of love
with the Queen of England.

Tell me now: who do you think inspired Salman Rushdi
to use these despicable and mean words but Satan ? It is
the same Satan who inspired him to revile the book of the most
merciful one, and describing parts of it as Satanic verses.

Isn't amazing that despite all of these mean and shameful words
in his book, he receives a literary award today as the best among the
play stage among writers and novelists as it was recently
announced in the B.B.C broadcasting.

My argument is not really against a man who is happy being
used by the Devil. He and his low words are so mean that they are
not worthy of rebuttal. Those who deserve countering are those who
supported him, hid him and used his book including the devil himself.

Is freedom so holy to them that they scaled the feeling of
1,000,000,000 Muslims worldwide? For what reason?

If the author of the book is really sincere enough, and if he had
logically concluded in his research or analyses that the Quran was
not valid, that therefore it might have been revealed by Satan, we
would then have appreciated the value of freedom of concepts in the
sight of the British who sacrificed much to keep their promise to
protect freedom.

But when they protect such a base and vulgar person whose
manner of expression is as low and mean as he is, then I would say
that makes it a mockery of freedom. It is another misuse of the
slogan freedom, with a profound awareness that this is not the only
time that the word, "FREEDOM", has been abused.

By this book, I intend to put their freedom to a test. Will they
protect me and my book, allow its publication and distribution, or
will they try to ban it.

I have not, however, used here the same method or approach as
Salman Rushdi did. Instead, I have quoted verses of the Bible
providing complete references. This is the method employed by no
less a scripture than the Holy Quran, itself:

"O YOU WHO BELIEVE, STAND OUT FIRMLY FOR ALLAH, AS WITNESSES TO
FAIR DEALING, AND LET NOT THE HATRED OF OTHERS TO YOU MAKE YOU
SWERVE TO WRONG AND DEPART FROM JUSTICE. BE JUST! THAT IS NEXT
TO PIETY. AND FEAR ALLAH. FOR ALLAH IS WELL-ACQUAINTED WITH ALL
THAT YOU DO". [Holy Quran 5:8]

The Bible itself testifies that this method is fair and just enough, We
find that in Luke: "By your own mouth I condemn you". [19:22]

And in Mathew: "Judge not, that you be not judged, for with
what judgement you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure
you mete, it shall be measured to you again. Why behold you see the
mote that is in your brother's eye, but consider not the beam that
is in your own eye?" [7:1]

This booklet is a brief of my big research about the
Bible after I have passed through all of it and collected its verses in
the same method that you see in this book, which makes it much
beneficial for those who are interested in more investigations about
the Bible. I hope I will be able to translate it as soon as possible.

Before I close my preface, I would remind the reader
that we Muslims have an advantage over Christianity, namely that
we bear witness that we believe in the books revealed to both
MOSES and JESUS, the prophets of the Jews, except for those
Biblical accretions written by the hand of man, That the are
accretions, my book is going to prove to you by their collection in
one place.

It is not meant as an insult to the Bible, because I select
verses and leave them as they are, without interfering comment
beside the text, except for some essential and important explanations
as the foot-notes.

It rather intend to defend my God, because my God and
yours does not speak in the way that you will see in this booklet. A
final purpose of this book is to assist you in distinguishing God's
verses from satanic verses.

As to other Christians who protested against Salman's
book I extend my gratefullness and apology, wishing that they
appreciate the reaction of one whom his book was unjustly abused.

While reading my pages, I would suggest that you read
it intellectually, I appeal to you that you be yourself a fair judge for
this case, and that you be on the side of none but the truth.

PROPHETS BUT NAKED !
--------------------
[Gen 9:21]
Noah drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent.
and Ham [his son] saw the NAKEDNESS of his father.

[1 Sam. 19:23]
And the spirit of God came upon Saul.. And he too STRIPPED OFF HIS
CLOTHES, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay NAKED all the day
and all the night.

[2 Sam. 6:20]
David DANCES NAKED before the people and before the Lord.

[Exo. 15:20]
And so his sister Mariam the Prophetess dances, she took a tremble and
dances with the women.

FORNICATORS !
-------------
[Judg. 14:19]
And the spirit of God came upon Samson, he killed thirty men.

[Judg. 15:5]
And he burned up the shocks and the standing grain as well as the olive
orchards...

[Judg. 16:1]
And he went to Gaza, and there he saw a HARLOT, and he went into her.

LOT'S DAUGHTERS COMMIT INCEST WITH HIM !
----------------------------------------
[Gen. 19:30]
Lot went up out of Zo'ar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters.
And the first-born said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is
not a man on earth to come to us after the manner of all the earth.
COME LET US MAKE OUR FATHER DRINK WINE AND WE WILL LIE WITH HIM, that we
may preserve offspring through our father. So they made their father drink
wine that night; AND THE FIRST BORN WENT IN AND LAY WITH HER FATHER; HE
DID NOT KNOW WHEN SHE LAY DOWN OR WHEN SHE AROSE.

And on the next day, the first-born said to the younger "Behold, I lay
last night with my father, let us make him drink wine tonight also; then
you go in and lie with him that we may preserve offspring through our
father.
So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger
arose, and LAY WITH HIM; and he did not know when she lay down or when
she arose. THUS BOTH THE DAUGHTERS OF LOT WERE WITH CHILD BY THEIR FATHER.

JUDAH WITH HIS DAUGHTER-IN-LAW
-------------------------------

Judah fornicates with his daughter-in-law: Ta'-mar.
[Gen. 38:15]
When he saw her, he thought her to be a harlot, for she had covered
her face. He went over to her at the road side and said "Come, LET ME
COME INTO YOU" for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law.
She said, "What will you give me, that you may come into me?" He
answered, "I will send you a kid from the flock." And she said "Will
you send me a pledge till you send it?" He said, "What pledge shall I
give you?" She replied "Your signal and your cord and your staff that
is in your hand."

So he gave them to her, and WENT INTO HER, and she conceived by him.
About three months later, Judah was told, "Ta'-mar your daughter-in-
law has played the harlot, and moreover SHE IS WITH CHILD BY HARLOTRY.

DAVID WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR'S WIFE
--------------------------------
[2.Sam. 11:1]
David arose from his couch and was walking upon the roof that he saw
from the roof a WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful, and
David sent and enquired about the woman. And one said, "Is not that
Bathshe'ba, the daughter of Eli'am, the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite?"

So David send messengers and took her, and SHE CAME TO HIM AND HE
LAY WITH HER.. Then she returned to her house; and she sent and told
David, I am with child. David called her husband, and invited him,
and ate in his presence and drank, so that he made him drunk. In the
morning David wrote to Jo'ab, "Set Uri'ah in the forefront of the
hardest fighting, and then draw back from him, that he may be struck
down and die.
When he died David sent and brought Uri'ah's wife to his house, and
she became his wife.

GOD PUNISHES DAVID
-------------------
[2.Sam. 12:10]
The Lord said to David, "Because you despised me, and have taken the
wife of Uri'ah the Hittite to be your wife.
Thus say the Lord, "Behold, I will take your wives (He punished David
through his daughter and son not his wife as you will see) before your
eyes, and give them to your neighbour and he shall lie with your wives
in the sight of this sun."

DAVID'S SON WITH HIS SISTER
---------------------------
[2.Sam. 13:1] Amnon the son of David fell in love with his sister Ta'-mar.
"Amnon was so tormented that he made himself ill because of his sister
Ta'-mar; for she was a virgin, and it seemed impossible to Amnon to do
anything to her.
Amnon had a friend who said to him, "Lie down on your bed and pretend to
be ill, and when [your father] the king comes to see you, you say to him:
let my sister Ta'-mar come and give bread to eat from her hand. David sent
Ta'-mar to her brother and ordered her to feed her brother by her hand.

Ta'-mar took the cakes she had made, and brought them into the chamber to
Amnon, but when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her,
and said to her, "Come, lie with me, my sister", she said, "No my brother,
do not force me." But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than
she, he forced her, and lay with her."

GET FOR YOURSELF A HARLOT !!!
-----------------------------
[Hos. 1:2]
When the Lord first spoke to Hose'a he said to him, "GO TAKE TO YOURSELF
A WIFE OF HARLOTRY and have children of harlotry, for the land has
committed great harlotry by forsaking the Lord."

[Gen. 35:22]
Rueben the son of Jacob lay with Bilhah his father's concubine.

[Gen. 49:4]
His father blamed him and said, "Because you went up to your father's
bed, then you defiled it, you went up to my couch.

PAGAN PROPHETS !!!
------------------
[1 King 11:3]
Solomon had seven hundred wives princesses and three hundred concubines;
and his wives turned his heart after other Gods.... the Goddess of the
Sido'nians.

AARON BUILT THE CALF !
----------------------
[Exo. 32:2]
Aaron said to people of Israel, "take off the rings of Gold which are
in the ears of your wives, your sons and your daughters. So they took
off the rings of gold, and brought them to Aaron. And he received the
golf at their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a
molten calf and they said, "These are your Gods, O Israel, who brought
you up out of the land of Egypt."

THE SEX LITERATURE IN THE BIBLE !
---------------------------------
[Prov. 7:7]
I have seen among the simple, I have perceived among the youth, a young
man without sense, passing along the street near her corner taking the
road to her house in the twilight, in the evening at the time of the
night and darkness.
And lo, a woman meets him, dressed as a harlot, wily of heart. She is
loud and wayward. Now in the street, now in the market, and at every
corner she lies in wait.

SHE SEIZES HIM AND KISSES HIM, and with impudent face she says to him:
I have come to meet you, to seek you eagerly, and I have found you.

I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. COME, LET US
TAKE OUR FILL OF LOVE TILL THE MORNING, LET US DELIGHT OURSELVES WITH
LOVE. FOR MY HUSBAND IS NOT AT HOME, HE HAS GONE ON A LONG JOURNEY.
With much seductive speech she persuades him, with her smooth talk she
compels him. All at once he follows her, as an ox goes to the slaughter.

WOMAN'S BREASTS IN THE BIBLE !
------------------------------
[Songs. 1:13]
My beloved is to me a bag of myrrh, that LIES BETWEEN MY BREASTS. Behold,
you are beautiful, my beloved, truly lovely. Our bed is green.(In R.S.V.
our couch)

[Song. 3:1]
Upon my bed night I sought him whom my soul loves but not found him.
"When I found him whom my soul loves, I HELD HIM, and would not let him
go until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the CHAMBER OF
HER THAT CONCEIVED ME. I adjure you, o daughters of Jerusalem, by the
gazelles or the hinds of the field, that you steer not up nor awaken love
until it pleases.

THE SONGS OF SOLOMON - A BOOK OF FLIRTATION
-------------------------------------------
[Songs. 4:1]
Behold you are beautiful my love. YOUR LIPS are like a scarlet thread your
cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate, your neck like the tower of David.
YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. How sweet is your
love my sister, my bride, how much better is your love than wine. How graceful
are your feet in sandals, O queenly maiden!
YOUR ROUNDED THIGHS are like jewels, the work of a master hand. YOUR NAVEL is
rounded bowl that never lacks mix wine. YOUR BELLY is heap of wheat, encircled
with lilies. YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle.

You are stature (in R.S.V. stately) as a palm tree, and your breasts are like
its clusters.
I say: I will go up (in R.S.V. climb) the tree, and lay hold of its branches.
Oh, may YOUR BREASTS be like clusters of the vine.

[Song. 8:8]
We have a little sister, and she has no breasts. What shall we do for our
sister on the day when is spoken for? I was a wall, and MY BREASTS WERE LIKE
TOWERS.

REJOICE WITH THEM !!
-------------------
[Prov. 5:18]
REJOICE WITH THE WIFE of your youth. Let her be as the loving hind and
pleasant roe; LET HER BREASTS SATISFY YOU AT ALL TIMES.

THE SEXY LANGUAGE IN EZEKIEL !
------------------------------
[Ezek. 16:1]
The Lord said to me, "Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abomination.
[15] But you trusted in your beauty, and played the harlot because of your
renown and poured out of your fornication on every one that passed by.. And
made for yourself images of men, and committed whoredom with them.
And in all your abominations and your whoredoms you have not remembered the
youth, when you were naked and bare... AND OPENED YOUR FEET TO EVERY ONE THAT
PASSED BY, and multiplied your whoredoms.

[26] You have also committed fornication with the Egyptians your neighbours,
great of flesh, and increased your whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.

[33] They give gifts to all whores: but you give your gifts to all lovers
and hire them, that they may come unto you on every side for your whoredom.

Wherefore, O harlot.. Because your filthiness was poured out and your nakedness
discovered through your whoredoms with your lovers.. I will gather all of your
lovers, with whom you have taken pleasure, and all them that you have loves, I
will even gather them round against you and will discover your nakedness unto
them, that they may see all your nakedness.

And I will also give you into their hand, and they shall throw down your
eminent place and shall break down your high places: They shall strip you also
of your clothes, and shall take your fair jewels, and leave you naked and bare.

THE STORY OF THE TWO PROSTITUTES - AHO'LAH & A-HOL-I-BAH
--------------------------------------------------------
[Ezek. 23:2]
Son of man, there were two men...They committed whoredoms in Egypt;
they committed whoredoms in their youth; they were their breasts
pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the
name of them were Aho'lah the elder, and A-hol-i-bah her sister. And
Aho'lah PLAYED THE HARLOT when she was mine, and she doted on her
lovers.
They BRUISED THE BREASTS OF HER VIRGINITY and poured their whoredom
upon her.
Wherefore, I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers..these
discovered her NAKEDNESS..

And when her sister A-hol-i-bah saw this, she was more corrupt in her
inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in
her whoredoms. And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw
men portrayed upon the wall..And as soon as she saw them with her eyes,
she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them, into Cal-de'-a.
And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled
her with their whoredom. So she discovered her whoredoms, and DISCOVERED
HER NAKEDNESS... Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to
remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she PLAYED THE HARLOT in the
land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh as the
flesh of asses, and WHOSE ISSUE IS LIKE THE ISSUE OF HORSES.

Thus you called to remembrance the lewdness of your youth, in bruising
your teats by the Egyptians for the paps of your youth. And they shall
deal with you hatefully, and take away all your labour, and shall leave
you naked and bare.
And the NAKEDNESS OF YOUR WHORDOMS shall be discovered, both your lewdness
and your whoredoms.
You shall be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of
astonishment and desolation. You shall even drink it and suck it out, and
you shall break the sherds thereof, AND PLUCK OFF YOUR OWN BREASTS.

GOD MAKES PEOPLE FALL IN ADULTERY
---------------------------------
[Amos 7:16]
God said to Am-a-zi'ah "You say, prophesy not against Israel and drop not
your word against the house of Isaac?
Thus the Lord says: YOUR WIFE SHALL BE AN HARLOT in the city and your sons
and your daughters shall fall by the sword."

[Jer. 8:9]
They have rejected the word of the Lord. Therefore I WILL GIVE THEIR WIVES
UNTO OTHERS.

[Isiah 3:16]
The Lord says "Because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with
stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and
making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a
scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and THE LORD WILL
DISCOVER THEIR SECRET PARTS.

[Jer. 13:22]
"For the greatness of your iniquity are your skirts discovered, AND YOUR
HEELS MADE BARE.
I will discover your skirts upon your face, that your shame may appear I
have seen your adulteries, and your neighings the lewdness of your whoredoms."

[Nah 3:4]
Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the well favoured harlot the
mistress of witchcrafts, and the seller nations through her whoredoms..
I will discover your skirts upon your face, and I WILL SHOW THE NATIONS
YOUR NAKEDNESS and the kingdoms your shame.

[hos 2:2]
God said, "Plead with your mother, plead: For she is not my wife neither I am
her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and
her adulteries from BETWEEN HER BREASTS, LEST I STRIP HER NAKED... I will not
have mercy upon her children, for they be the children of whoredoms. And now
will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers."

III
18-12-07, 19:59
Beste man, waarom alles uit de context halen?

Ik neem als voorbeeld Hosea 2:2.
Dit is wat er staat:


1 Maar eens zullen de kinderen van Israël talrijk zijn als zandkorrels aan de zee, die niet te meten en niet te tellen zijn. En waar tegen hen gezegd is: ‘Jullie zijn mijn volk niet meer,’ zullen ze weer kinderen van de levende God worden genoemd.
(2:1-3) In sommige vertalingen zijn deze verzen genummerd als 1:10-12.
2 Dan zullen de kinderen van Juda en de kinderen van Israël weer bijeenkomen en één leider aanstellen. Op de dag dat God zelf zal zaaien, op de grote dag van Jizreël, zullen ze uit de aarde opschieten. 3 Dan noemen jullie je broeders weer Ammi
(2:3) Ammi – Ammi kan worden vertaald als ‘mijn volk’.
en je zusters weer Ruchama.
(2:3) Ruchama – Ruchama kan worden vertaald als ‘die ontferming ontvangt’.
Israëls ontrouw beantwoord met liefde
4 Klaag jullie moeder aan! Klaag haar aan! Want zij is mijn vrouw niet meer en ik ben haar man niet meer. Laat ze die hoerige opschik wegdoen van haar gezicht, de tekens van overspel tussen haar borsten weghalen.
(2:4-25) In sommige vertalingen zijn deze verzen genummerd als 2:1-22.
5 Anders zal ik haar uitkleden, haar zo naakt laten staan als toen ze geboren werd; anders maak ik haar onvruchtbaar als een woestijn, als een land van grote droogte, en laat ik haar omkomen van dorst. 6 Ook ontferm ik me niet over haar kinderen, want ze zijn geboren uit overspel. 7 Overspelig was immers hun moeder; de vrouw die hen gedragen heeft leefde in schande. Ze zei: ‘Ik ga achter mijn minnaars aan, want zij zorgen voor mijn eten en drinken, voor wol en vlas, olijfolie en wijn.’


Wie is die moeder?

Wortel
18-12-07, 20:08
Die bewuste "scabreuze" Bijbelsteksten kent iedere christen die zijn Bijbel een beetje kent. Dat geldt voor de Tenach trouwens ook voor elke jood.

Het grote manco aan de redeneertrant van de auteur van dit artikel is dat hij de Bijbel op exact dezelfde manier geschreven wil zien als de Qur'an. Daarbij laat hij zich mede leiden door een cultuurgebonden premisse over welke taal God wel of niet zou gebruiken. De Bijbel is nu eenmaal niet geschreven als een verzameling te reciteren teksten, maar als de neerslag van de ervaringen van mensen waarin God zijn eigen voetstappen zet. Die voetstappen staan niet een een landschap waarin het allemaal al koek en ei is, maar in een landschap waarin de menselijke zwakten en tekortkomingen onverbloemd ter sprake worden gebracht. Dan verkies ik toch liever dit laatste landschap dan de mentaliteit van "zolang we er niet over praten is het er ook niet" terwijl het er gewoon dubbel en dwars allemaal wel is.

Op Islam en meer is er momenteel een zekere 'Bijwoner' actief die min of meer hetzelfde wil doen met de Qur'an als wat de auteur van dit artikel wil doen met de Bijbel. Het zou heel wat wijzer zijn elk geschrift in zijn eigenheid te laten spreken en van daaruit te komen tot het verstaan van de boodschap van beiden.

Slinger
18-12-07, 20:18
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
http://www.islamworld.net/bible-speak.html

Let The Bible Speak

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABDUL RAHMAN DIMASHKIAH
___________________________




Introduction
--------------

In the past, when so many attacks were launched against Islam
under an open and unabashed crusader flag, various popes used to
encourage some fanatics to write booklets containing lies against
Islam and against the Prophet of Islam, distorting his message and
reviling his religion.

After the church withdrew from this activity, the number of
these attacks was obviously reduced. Yet they did not stop
altogether. They took another form under a different banner, the
pretext of freedom of expression. Only the approach has changed.

An apostate and heretic called Salman Rushdi wrote a book
in which he reviled Islam, describing verses of the Quran as satanic
and revealed by the Devil. He abused the Prophet of Islam, his
companions and his wives, describing the latter as adulteresses.

Britain, defender of freedom rushed headlong to support and
defend this man using as a pretext, the necessity of freedom of
expression, which is in this case, the freedom of revile and curse.
Even in the west no one has a right to shout fire in a crowded hall
and escape the punishment for causing a possibly fatal panic.

Yet one month before the publication of Rushdi's book, the
partisans of free speech violated freedom of expression when
they banned the book, SPY CATCHER by Peter Wright. This
inconsistency makes it clear that their freedom is to do as they
desire, not as people of other religions earnestly request.

And I wonder if we were to complain to the British Judges
against a person who falsely accused me of being adulterer, what
then their judgment will be?!! Would they defend him and justify his
right to slander?

And if not, why do they use a deviant standard of justice
concerning Rushdi's book which reviled those who are more
beloved to us than our fathers, sisters, wives and daughters?

It seems to me that perhaps the one or two centuries of peaceful
coexistence has not made British neo-crusaders forger their ancient
hatred of Islam.

The book of Salman Rushdi reviled many more beside Islam
and the Prophet.
On (page 461), he states, "nigger eats white man's [shit]".
On (page 529), he mocked the black brethren by saying "black
shit is bad".
On (page 80) is found: ["the sister fucking British-shits"].
The word [Fucking] used in his book fifty-two (52) times.
It describes Margaret Thatcher as a [Bitch], he also mocks her
name by using the word [Toicher] instead of her name
Thatcher. He was also conspiring to have one night of love
with the Queen of England.

Tell me now: who do you think inspired Salman Rushdi
to use these despicable and mean words but Satan ? It is
the same Satan who inspired him to revile the book of the most
merciful one, and describing parts of it as Satanic verses.

Isn't amazing that despite all of these mean and shameful words
in his book, he receives a literary award today as the best among the
play stage among writers and novelists as it was recently
announced in the B.B.C broadcasting.

My argument is not really against a man who is happy being
used by the Devil. He and his low words are so mean that they are
not worthy of rebuttal. Those who deserve countering are those who
supported him, hid him and used his book including the devil himself.

Is freedom so holy to them that they scaled the feeling of
1,000,000,000 Muslims worldwide? For what reason?

If the author of the book is really sincere enough, and if he had
logically concluded in his research or analyses that the Quran was
not valid, that therefore it might have been revealed by Satan, we
would then have appreciated the value of freedom of concepts in the
sight of the British who sacrificed much to keep their promise to
protect freedom.

But when they protect such a base and vulgar person whose
manner of expression is as low and mean as he is, then I would say
that makes it a mockery of freedom. It is another misuse of the
slogan freedom, with a profound awareness that this is not the only
time that the word, "FREEDOM", has been abused.

By this book, I intend to put their freedom to a test. Will they
protect me and my book, allow its publication and distribution, or
will they try to ban it.

I have not, however, used here the same method or approach as
Salman Rushdi did. Instead, I have quoted verses of the Bible
providing complete references. This is the method employed by no
less a scripture than the Holy Quran, itself:

"O YOU WHO BELIEVE, STAND OUT FIRMLY FOR ALLAH, AS WITNESSES TO
FAIR DEALING, AND LET NOT THE HATRED OF OTHERS TO YOU MAKE YOU
SWERVE TO WRONG AND DEPART FROM JUSTICE. BE JUST! THAT IS NEXT
TO PIETY. AND FEAR ALLAH. FOR ALLAH IS WELL-ACQUAINTED WITH ALL
THAT YOU DO". [Holy Quran 5:8]

The Bible itself testifies that this method is fair and just enough, We
find that in Luke: "By your own mouth I condemn you". [19:22]

And in Mathew: "Judge not, that you be not judged, for with
what judgement you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure
you mete, it shall be measured to you again. Why behold you see the
mote that is in your brother's eye, but consider not the beam that
is in your own eye?" [7:1]

This booklet is a brief of my big research about the
Bible after I have passed through all of it and collected its verses in
the same method that you see in this book, which makes it much
beneficial for those who are interested in more investigations about
the Bible. I hope I will be able to translate it as soon as possible.

Before I close my preface, I would remind the reader
that we Muslims have an advantage over Christianity, namely that
we bear witness that we believe in the books revealed to both
MOSES and JESUS, the prophets of the Jews, except for those
Biblical accretions written by the hand of man, That the are
accretions, my book is going to prove to you by their collection in
one place.

It is not meant as an insult to the Bible, because I select
verses and leave them as they are, without interfering comment
beside the text, except for some essential and important explanations
as the foot-notes.

It rather intend to defend my God, because my God and
yours does not speak in the way that you will see in this booklet. A
final purpose of this book is to assist you in distinguishing God's
verses from satanic verses.

As to other Christians who protested against Salman's
book I extend my gratefullness and apology, wishing that they
appreciate the reaction of one whom his book was unjustly abused.

While reading my pages, I would suggest that you read
it intellectually, I appeal to you that you be yourself a fair judge for
this case, and that you be on the side of none but the truth.

PROPHETS BUT NAKED !
--------------------
[Gen 9:21]
Noah drank of the wine, and became drunk, and lay uncovered in his tent.
and Ham [his son] saw the NAKEDNESS of his father.

[1 Sam. 19:23]
And the spirit of God came upon Saul.. And he too STRIPPED OFF HIS
CLOTHES, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay NAKED all the day
and all the night.

[2 Sam. 6:20]
David DANCES NAKED before the people and before the Lord.

[Exo. 15:20]
And so his sister Mariam the Prophetess dances, she took a tremble and
dances with the women.

FORNICATORS !
-------------
[Judg. 14:19]
And the spirit of God came upon Samson, he killed thirty men.

[Judg. 15:5]
And he burned up the shocks and the standing grain as well as the olive
orchards...

[Judg. 16:1]
And he went to Gaza, and there he saw a HARLOT, and he went into her.

LOT'S DAUGHTERS COMMIT INCEST WITH HIM !
----------------------------------------
[Gen. 19:30]
Lot went up out of Zo'ar and dwelt in the hills with his two daughters.
And the first-born said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is
not a man on earth to come to us after the manner of all the earth.
COME LET US MAKE OUR FATHER DRINK WINE AND WE WILL LIE WITH HIM, that we
may preserve offspring through our father. So they made their father drink
wine that night; AND THE FIRST BORN WENT IN AND LAY WITH HER FATHER; HE
DID NOT KNOW WHEN SHE LAY DOWN OR WHEN SHE AROSE.

And on the next day, the first-born said to the younger "Behold, I lay
last night with my father, let us make him drink wine tonight also; then
you go in and lie with him that we may preserve offspring through our
father.
So they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger
arose, and LAY WITH HIM; and he did not know when she lay down or when
she arose. THUS BOTH THE DAUGHTERS OF LOT WERE WITH CHILD BY THEIR FATHER.

JUDAH WITH HIS DAUGHTER-IN-LAW
-------------------------------

Judah fornicates with his daughter-in-law: Ta'-mar.
[Gen. 38:15]
When he saw her, he thought her to be a harlot, for she had covered
her face. He went over to her at the road side and said "Come, LET ME
COME INTO YOU" for he did not know that she was his daughter-in-law.
She said, "What will you give me, that you may come into me?" He
answered, "I will send you a kid from the flock." And she said "Will
you send me a pledge till you send it?" He said, "What pledge shall I
give you?" She replied "Your signal and your cord and your staff that
is in your hand."

So he gave them to her, and WENT INTO HER, and she conceived by him.
About three months later, Judah was told, "Ta'-mar your daughter-in-
law has played the harlot, and moreover SHE IS WITH CHILD BY HARLOTRY.

DAVID WITH HIS NEIGHBOUR'S WIFE
--------------------------------
[2.Sam. 11:1]
David arose from his couch and was walking upon the roof that he saw
from the roof a WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful, and
David sent and enquired about the woman. And one said, "Is not that
Bathshe'ba, the daughter of Eli'am, the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite?"

So David send messengers and took her, and SHE CAME TO HIM AND HE
LAY WITH HER.. Then she returned to her house; and she sent and told
David, I am with child. David called her husband, and invited him,
and ate in his presence and drank, so that he made him drunk. In the
morning David wrote to Jo'ab, "Set Uri'ah in the forefront of the
hardest fighting, and then draw back from him, that he may be struck
down and die.
When he died David sent and brought Uri'ah's wife to his house, and
she became his wife.

GOD PUNISHES DAVID
-------------------
[2.Sam. 12:10]
The Lord said to David, "Because you despised me, and have taken the
wife of Uri'ah the Hittite to be your wife.
Thus say the Lord, "Behold, I will take your wives (He punished David
through his daughter and son not his wife as you will see) before your
eyes, and give them to your neighbour and he shall lie with your wives
in the sight of this sun."

DAVID'S SON WITH HIS SISTER
---------------------------
[2.Sam. 13:1] Amnon the son of David fell in love with his sister Ta'-mar.
"Amnon was so tormented that he made himself ill because of his sister
Ta'-mar; for she was a virgin, and it seemed impossible to Amnon to do
anything to her.
Amnon had a friend who said to him, "Lie down on your bed and pretend to
be ill, and when [your father] the king comes to see you, you say to him:
let my sister Ta'-mar come and give bread to eat from her hand. David sent
Ta'-mar to her brother and ordered her to feed her brother by her hand.

Ta'-mar took the cakes she had made, and brought them into the chamber to
Amnon, but when she brought them near him to eat, he took hold of her,
and said to her, "Come, lie with me, my sister", she said, "No my brother,
do not force me." But he would not listen to her; and being stronger than
she, he forced her, and lay with her."

GET FOR YOURSELF A HARLOT !!!
-----------------------------
[Hos. 1:2]
When the Lord first spoke to Hose'a he said to him, "GO TAKE TO YOURSELF
A WIFE OF HARLOTRY and have children of harlotry, for the land has
committed great harlotry by forsaking the Lord."

[Gen. 35:22]
Rueben the son of Jacob lay with Bilhah his father's concubine.

[Gen. 49:4]
His father blamed him and said, "Because you went up to your father's
bed, then you defiled it, you went up to my couch.

PAGAN PROPHETS !!!
------------------
[1 King 11:3]
Solomon had seven hundred wives princesses and three hundred concubines;
and his wives turned his heart after other Gods.... the Goddess of the
Sido'nians.

AARON BUILT THE CALF !
----------------------
[Exo. 32:2]
Aaron said to people of Israel, "take off the rings of Gold which are
in the ears of your wives, your sons and your daughters. So they took
off the rings of gold, and brought them to Aaron. And he received the
golf at their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a
molten calf and they said, "These are your Gods, O Israel, who brought
you up out of the land of Egypt."

THE SEX LITERATURE IN THE BIBLE !
---------------------------------
[Prov. 7:7]
I have seen among the simple, I have perceived among the youth, a young
man without sense, passing along the street near her corner taking the
road to her house in the twilight, in the evening at the time of the
night and darkness.
And lo, a woman meets him, dressed as a harlot, wily of heart. She is
loud and wayward. Now in the street, now in the market, and at every
corner she lies in wait.

SHE SEIZES HIM AND KISSES HIM, and with impudent face she says to him:
I have come to meet you, to seek you eagerly, and I have found you.

I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. COME, LET US
TAKE OUR FILL OF LOVE TILL THE MORNING, LET US DELIGHT OURSELVES WITH
LOVE. FOR MY HUSBAND IS NOT AT HOME, HE HAS GONE ON A LONG JOURNEY.
With much seductive speech she persuades him, with her smooth talk she
compels him. All at once he follows her, as an ox goes to the slaughter.

WOMAN'S BREASTS IN THE BIBLE !
------------------------------
[Songs. 1:13]
My beloved is to me a bag of myrrh, that LIES BETWEEN MY BREASTS. Behold,
you are beautiful, my beloved, truly lovely. Our bed is green.(In R.S.V.
our couch)

[Song. 3:1]
Upon my bed night I sought him whom my soul loves but not found him.
"When I found him whom my soul loves, I HELD HIM, and would not let him
go until I had brought him into my mother's house, and into the CHAMBER OF
HER THAT CONCEIVED ME. I adjure you, o daughters of Jerusalem, by the
gazelles or the hinds of the field, that you steer not up nor awaken love
until it pleases.

THE SONGS OF SOLOMON - A BOOK OF FLIRTATION
-------------------------------------------
[Songs. 4:1]
Behold you are beautiful my love. YOUR LIPS are like a scarlet thread your
cheeks are like halves of a pomegranate, your neck like the tower of David.
YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle. How sweet is your
love my sister, my bride, how much better is your love than wine. How graceful
are your feet in sandals, O queenly maiden!
YOUR ROUNDED THIGHS are like jewels, the work of a master hand. YOUR NAVEL is
rounded bowl that never lacks mix wine. YOUR BELLY is heap of wheat, encircled
with lilies. YOUR TWO BREASTS are like two fawns, twins of a gazelle.

You are stature (in R.S.V. stately) as a palm tree, and your breasts are like
its clusters.
I say: I will go up (in R.S.V. climb) the tree, and lay hold of its branches.
Oh, may YOUR BREASTS be like clusters of the vine.

[Song. 8:8]
We have a little sister, and she has no breasts. What shall we do for our
sister on the day when is spoken for? I was a wall, and MY BREASTS WERE LIKE
TOWERS.

REJOICE WITH THEM !!
-------------------
[Prov. 5:18]
REJOICE WITH THE WIFE of your youth. Let her be as the loving hind and
pleasant roe; LET HER BREASTS SATISFY YOU AT ALL TIMES.

THE SEXY LANGUAGE IN EZEKIEL !
------------------------------
[Ezek. 16:1]
The Lord said to me, "Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abomination.
[15] But you trusted in your beauty, and played the harlot because of your
renown and poured out of your fornication on every one that passed by.. And
made for yourself images of men, and committed whoredom with them.
And in all your abominations and your whoredoms you have not remembered the
youth, when you were naked and bare... AND OPENED YOUR FEET TO EVERY ONE THAT
PASSED BY, and multiplied your whoredoms.

[26] You have also committed fornication with the Egyptians your neighbours,
great of flesh, and increased your whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.

[33] They give gifts to all whores: but you give your gifts to all lovers
and hire them, that they may come unto you on every side for your whoredom.

Wherefore, O harlot.. Because your filthiness was poured out and your nakedness
discovered through your whoredoms with your lovers.. I will gather all of your
lovers, with whom you have taken pleasure, and all them that you have loves, I
will even gather them round against you and will discover your nakedness unto
them, that they may see all your nakedness.

And I will also give you into their hand, and they shall throw down your
eminent place and shall break down your high places: They shall strip you also
of your clothes, and shall take your fair jewels, and leave you naked and bare.

THE STORY OF THE TWO PROSTITUTES - AHO'LAH & A-HOL-I-BAH
--------------------------------------------------------
[Ezek. 23:2]
Son of man, there were two men...They committed whoredoms in Egypt;
they committed whoredoms in their youth; they were their breasts
pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity. And the
name of them were Aho'lah the elder, and A-hol-i-bah her sister. And
Aho'lah PLAYED THE HARLOT when she was mine, and she doted on her
lovers.
They BRUISED THE BREASTS OF HER VIRGINITY and poured their whoredom
upon her.
Wherefore, I have delivered her into the hand of her lovers..these
discovered her NAKEDNESS..

And when her sister A-hol-i-bah saw this, she was more corrupt in her
inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in
her whoredoms. And that she increased her whoredoms: for when she saw
men portrayed upon the wall..And as soon as she saw them with her eyes,
she doted upon them, and sent messengers unto them, into Cal-de'-a.
And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled
her with their whoredom. So she discovered her whoredoms, and DISCOVERED
HER NAKEDNESS... Yet she multiplied her whoredoms, in calling to
remembrance the days of her youth, wherein she PLAYED THE HARLOT in the
land of Egypt. For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh as the
flesh of asses, and WHOSE ISSUE IS LIKE THE ISSUE OF HORSES.

Thus you called to remembrance the lewdness of your youth, in bruising
your teats by the Egyptians for the paps of your youth. And they shall
deal with you hatefully, and take away all your labour, and shall leave
you naked and bare.
And the NAKEDNESS OF YOUR WHORDOMS shall be discovered, both your lewdness
and your whoredoms.
You shall be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of
astonishment and desolation. You shall even drink it and suck it out, and
you shall break the sherds thereof, AND PLUCK OFF YOUR OWN BREASTS.

GOD MAKES PEOPLE FALL IN ADULTERY
---------------------------------
[Amos 7:16]
God said to Am-a-zi'ah "You say, prophesy not against Israel and drop not
your word against the house of Isaac?
Thus the Lord says: YOUR WIFE SHALL BE AN HARLOT in the city and your sons
and your daughters shall fall by the sword."

[Jer. 8:9]
They have rejected the word of the Lord. Therefore I WILL GIVE THEIR WIVES
UNTO OTHERS.

[Isiah 3:16]
The Lord says "Because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with
stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and
making a tinkling with their feet: Therefore the Lord will smite with a
scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and THE LORD WILL
DISCOVER THEIR SECRET PARTS.

[Jer. 13:22]
"For the greatness of your iniquity are your skirts discovered, AND YOUR
HEELS MADE BARE.
I will discover your skirts upon your face, that your shame may appear I
have seen your adulteries, and your neighings the lewdness of your whoredoms."

[Nah 3:4]
Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the well favoured harlot the
mistress of witchcrafts, and the seller nations through her whoredoms..
I will discover your skirts upon your face, and I WILL SHOW THE NATIONS
YOUR NAKEDNESS and the kingdoms your shame.

[hos 2:2]
God said, "Plead with your mother, plead: For she is not my wife neither I am
her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and
her adulteries from BETWEEN HER BREASTS, LEST I STRIP HER NAKED... I will not
have mercy upon her children, for they be the children of whoredoms. And now
will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers."

Jij snapt niet dat de Bijbel in de christelijke en Joodse traditie een heel andere functie heeft dan de koran. En je snapt dus ook niet dat het citeren van al deze zaken geen zin heeft. Wat wil je ermee aantonen. De Bijbel is een boek geschreven door auteurs, waarin Goddelijke en menselijke zaken worden gereflecteerd, geschreven door mensen als jij en ik, geen uit de hemel gedropte tekst.

AmirAlMominien
18-12-07, 20:57
Hahaha. Kijk ze opeens protesteren. Als ze moslims met hun Islamhaat overladen, is er niks aan de hand. Maar gaat het over henzelf, gedragen ze zich als oude impotente oma's die zojuist hun laatste tand hebben verloren. Jullie zijn zo aandoenlijk. Koetchie koetchie..

barfly
18-12-07, 21:48
Weg met alle relifanaten! :duim:

Coolassprov MC
18-12-07, 22:05
Geplaatst door Slinger
Jij snapt niet dat de Bijbel in de christelijke en Joodse traditie een heel andere functie heeft dan de koran. En je snapt dus ook niet dat het citeren van al deze zaken geen zin heeft. Wat wil je ermee aantonen.

Dat jullie Christenen eerst de hijsbalk uit jullie oogjes moeten zien te hijsen alvorens jullie moslims belasteren als concurrenten.


Geplaatst door Slinger
De Bijbel is een boek geschreven door auteurs, waarin Goddelijke en menselijke zaken worden gereflecteerd, geschreven door mensen als jij en ik, geen uit de hemel gedropte tekst.

Iedere mongool, zelfs een Christen, weet dat niemand de Bijbel kent zoals jij 'm beschrijft.

Coolassprov MC
18-12-07, 22:09
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
Hahaha. Kijk ze opeens protesteren. Als ze moslims met hun Islamhaat overladen, is er niks aan de hand. Maar gaat het over henzelf, gedragen ze zich als oude impotente oma's die zojuist hun laatste tand hebben verloren. Jullie zijn zo aandoenlijk. Koetchie koetchie..

Vorig jaar rond deze tijd zat ik nog in een tent met de schrijver van het artikel in Mina.. :droef:

AmirAlMominien
18-12-07, 22:13
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
Vorig jaar rond deze tijd zat ik nog in een tent met de schrijver van het artikel in Mina.. :droef:
Echt? Lijkt me een wonderlijke ervaring. Hoewel, als je daarna met zulke Islamhaters wordt geconfronteerd, moet dat wel heel veel nostalgie teweeg brengen.

Coolassprov MC
18-12-07, 22:15
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
Echt? Lijkt me een wonderlijke ervaring. Hoewel, als je daarna met zulke Islamhaters wordt geconfronteerd, moet dat wel heel veel nostalgie teweeg brengen.

Hij heeft mij dat artikel vorig jaar met zijn eigen mond aangeraden; ik pm je een stukje koranrecitatie door hem!!

Coolassprov MC
18-12-07, 22:20
Geplaatst door III
Beste man, waarom alles uit de context halen?

Als dat buiten de context is weet ik er nog 10.000.

Witte78
18-12-07, 22:37
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
Hahaha. Kijk ze opeens protesteren. Als ze moslims met hun Islamhaat overladen, is er niks aan de hand. Maar gaat het over henzelf, gedragen ze zich als oude impotente oma's die zojuist hun laatste tand hebben verloren. Jullie zijn zo aandoenlijk. Koetchie koetchie..

Wie zijn ze, ze, henzelf, ze en jullie precies?

AmirAlMominien
18-12-07, 22:40
Geplaatst door Witte78
Wie zijn ze, ze, henzelf, ze en jullie precies?
De Islamhaters. Je voelt je toch niet aangesproken?

naam
18-12-07, 22:56
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
De Islamhaters. Je voelt je toch niet aangesproken?

Ik vind het allebei niks, de bijbel en koran. Nee, ik voel me niet aangesproken. Ieder zijn ding hoor.
Als je in elfjes gelooft of in reincarnatie is het ook goed, desnoods in aliens die je kunnen ontvoeren. Voorouderverering kan er ook prima bij.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/ReligiesW.png/300px-ReligiesW.png

Slinger
18-12-07, 23:14
Geplaatst door barfly
Weg met alle relifanaten! :duim:

Inderdaad komen we hier in terecht in de hoek van godsdienstfanaten. Een productieve discussie kan zo echt niet ontstaan. Alles is verspilde moeite. Wel jammer.

naam
18-12-07, 23:20
Geplaatst door Slinger
Inderdaad komen we hier in terecht in de hoek van godsdienstfanaten. Een productieve discussie kan zo echt niet ontstaan. Alles is verspilde moeite. Wel jammer.

Doe 's gek.

Ga voor

Introduction to Scientology

The word Scientology literally means "the study of truth." It comes from the Latin word "scio" meaning "knowing in the fullest sense of the word" and the Greek word "logos" meaning "study of."

Scientology is the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, others and all of life. The religion comprises a body of knowledge extending from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these:

Man is an immortal, spiritual being. His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized — and those capabilities can be realized. He is able to not only solve his own problems, accomplish his goals and gain lasting happiness, but also achieve new, higher states of awareness and ability.

In Scientology no one is asked to accept anything as belief or on faith. That which is true for you is what you have observed to be true. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing results.

Through Scientology, people all over the world are achieving the long-sought goal of true spiritual release and freedom.

ronald
18-12-07, 23:30
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
Hahaha. Kijk ze opeens protesteren. Als ze moslims met hun Islamhaat overladen, is er niks aan de hand. Maar gaat het over henzelf, gedragen ze zich als oude impotente oma's die zojuist hun laatste tand hebben verloren. Jullie zijn zo aandoenlijk. Koetchie koetchie..



Alweer dezelfde soort "problemen" die men met de Tenach (ik ga alleen over het Oude Testament) heeft en denkt te kunnen "bewijzen" dat het niet klopt? Ik kan elk punt dat hier uit de Tenach wordt aangevoerd als twijfel te niet doen. Geen enkel probleem. Je hoeft daar niet voor te haten, te schofferen, overdrijven, "te vervalsen" of wat dan ook. Puur met kennis. Maar zo'n gekopieerde pagina van een of andere site daar doe ik nu niet eens moeite voor. Klinkt allemaal een beetje naar stoere jongens taal en in dat geval: ja hoor... bekijk het maar....

H.P.Pas
19-12-07, 00:21
Geplaatst door barfly
Weg met alle relifanaten! :duim:



Le dernier repas

Paroles et Musique: Jacques Brel 1964

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Je veux qu'on y dévore
Après quelques soutanes
Une poule faisane
Venue du Périgord
Puis je veux qu'on m'emmène
En haut de ma colline
Voir les arbres dormir
En refermant leurs bras
Et puis je veux encore
Lancer des pierres au ciel
En criant Dieu est mort
Une dernière fois

mark61
19-12-07, 00:24
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
An apostate and heretic called Salman Rushdi wrote a book
[...] describing verses of the Quran as satanic
and revealed by the Devil.

Huh? Dat begrip is algemeen bekend en aanvaard in de islam.

Overigens ging het boek daar niet over, maja, literatuur begrijpen is een vak apart.

mark61
19-12-07, 01:18
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
Hahaha. Kijk ze opeens protesteren. Als ze moslims met hun Islamhaat overladen, is er niks aan de hand. Maar gaat het over henzelf, gedragen ze zich als oude impotente oma's die zojuist hun laatste tand hebben verloren. Jullie zijn zo aandoenlijk. Koetchie koetchie..

Je bedoelt dat je stom bent om te begrijpen wat ze schrijven? De Koran en de bijbel zijn compleet verschillende boeken. De tekst lijkt weliswaar sterk op elkaar; de schrijvers verschillen; het gebruik en het doel ervan verschillen. Zelfs deze ongelovige weet dat nog wel.

Beledigen en schelden zijn een moslim onwaardig. Kijk nog es naar je strafpunt ter herinnering, O Aanvoerder der Gelovigen.

mark61
19-12-07, 01:20
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
Iedere mongool, zelfs een Christen, weet dat niemand de Bijbel kent zoals jij 'm beschrijft.

Gedraag je en beledig geen volk(-sdeel).

Dat jij de ballen verstand hebt van de bijbel is jouw probleem, niet dat van christenen of toevallige passanten. Een mening hebben is voorbehouden aan mensen die enigszins verstand van de materie hebben. Maja, dat heeft jou nooit verhinderd te.

mark61
19-12-07, 01:22
Geplaatst door Slinger
Inderdaad komen we hier in terecht in de hoek van godsdienstfanaten. Een productieve discussie kan zo echt niet ontstaan. Alles is verspilde moeite. Wel jammer.

Tis onvermijdelijk. Hoe productief kan een discussie zijn tussen 2 partijen die allebei menen de Waarheid in pacht te hebben? De een zijn gelovige is de ander zijn heiden.

Wortel
19-12-07, 10:08
Deze "discussie" heeft inderdaad weinig zin, helaas. Iets teveel haantjesgedrag om werkelijk te kunnen horen wat er werkelijk gezegd wordt.
Misschien is het beste dit alles af te sluiten met een citaat uit de Qur'an.

En ge zijt van hoogstaand karakter. Sura 68:4

naam
19-12-07, 10:18
Geplaatst door mark61
Tis onvermijdelijk. Hoe productief kan een discussie zijn tussen 2 partijen die allebei menen de Waarheid in pacht te hebben? De een zijn gelovige is de ander zijn heiden.

Ik ben de über heiden. :ego:

mark61
19-12-07, 11:07
Geplaatst door naam
Ik ben de über heiden. :ego:

Daar heb je het gedonder al :ego:

Coolassprov MC
19-12-07, 20:33
Geplaatst door Slinger
Inderdaad komen we hier in terecht in de hoek van godsdienstfanaten. Een productieve discussie kan zo echt niet ontstaan. Alles is verspilde moeite. Wel jammer.

Zodra je ervoor bent uitgekomen,
welke pseudos,
je op maroc.nl,
in de jaren hebt gehad,
kun je het gaan hebben over een ''productieve discussie''.

Slinger
19-12-07, 22:55
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
Zodra je ervoor bent uitgekomen,
welke pseudos,
je op maroc.nl,
in de jaren hebt gehad,
kun je het gaan hebben over een ''productieve discussie''.

:lachu:

Wanneer jij er eerlijk voor uit komt waar jij de inspiratie hebt opgedaan voor je nick, dan pas kun jij spreken over een serieuze deelname aan dit forum.

Coolassprov MC
20-12-07, 11:34
Geplaatst door Slinger
:lachu:

Wanneer jij er eerlijk voor uit komt waar jij de inspiratie hebt opgedaan voor je nick, dan pas kun jij spreken over een serieuze deelname aan dit forum.

Open een nieuwe draad waarbinnen je de rest van de nvdd-deelnemers hetzelfde vraagt.

Als je claimt serieuze, productieve, oprechte discussie te ambieren zul je toch echt met open vizier moeten strijden en er voor uit moeten komen welke pseudo's je allemaal in de jaren geweest op dit forum hebt aangenomen; tot die tijd ben je een onverbiddelijk hypocriet.

Daar sta ik of mijn pseudo ver buiten.

The_Grand_Wazoo
20-12-07, 11:50
Geplaatst door Wortel
Deze "discussie" heeft inderdaad weinig zin, helaas. Iets teveel haantjesgedrag om werkelijk te kunnen horen wat er werkelijk gezegd wordt.
Misschien is het beste dit alles af te sluiten met een citaat uit de Qur'an.

En ge zijt van hoogstaand karakter. Sura 68:4

Een ding is onmiskenbaar:
Als Jezus zou terugkeren op aarde zou hij onmiddelijk weer veroordeeld worden en als Mohammed zou terugkeren als profeet (of er een nieuwe profeet zou opstaan) zou die onmiddelijk door allerlei hoge geestelijke vogelvrij verklaard worden, met als gevolg dat vrome moslims hem wensen te vermoorden. Beide zouden onmiddelijk het slachtoffer zijn van dezelfde groeperingen, namelijk de gelovigen en de clerus, a la het verhaal van de Groot Inquisiteur van Dostojevski. e
Precies dat zelfde menstype zal 100 jaar later claimen dat zij de ware volgeling zijn.

knuppeltje
20-12-07, 12:48
Geplaatst door Wortel

En ge zijt van hoogstaand karakter. Sura 68:4

Dat vatten sommigen wel erg serieus op.

Wortel
20-12-07, 13:45
Een ding is onmiskenbaar:
Als Jezus zou terugkeren op aarde zou hij onmiddelijk weer veroordeeld worden en als Mohammed zou terugkeren als profeet (of er een nieuwe profeet zou opstaan) zou die onmiddelijk door allerlei hoge geestelijke vogelvrij verklaard worden, met als gevolg dat vrome moslims hem wensen te vermoorden. Beide zouden onmiddelijk het slachtoffer zijn van dezelfde groeperingen, namelijk de gelovigen en de clerus, a la het verhaal van de Groot Inquisiteur van Dostojevski. e
Precies dat zelfde menstype zal 100 jaar later claimen dat zij de ware volgeling zijn.

Wat een trieste woorden.
Het is natuurlijk waar dat de bevlogenheid van het allereerste begin later kan stollen in onwrikbaar vastgeroeste dogma's. Daar staat echter tegenover dat -als ik alleen voor het Christendom spreek- het zo ook is begonnen. Alleen een stelletje arme vissers, een dissidente hoofdman over honderd en een vrouw die nooit had leren staan maar die gek genoeg toch een gevallen vrouw werd genoemd, gingen in allereerste instantie achter Jezus aan. De geestelijke leidslieden van die dagen moesten er weinig van hebben.

Slinger
20-12-07, 14:27
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
Zodra je ervoor bent uitgekomen,
welke pseudos,
je op maroc.nl,
in de jaren hebt gehad,
kun je het gaan hebben over een ''productieve discussie''.

In het kader van dit topic lijkt me het wel passend om de koran ook eens voor zichzelf te laten spreken. Ik heb speciaal voor jou een passage gevonden.

In naam van Allah, De Erbarmer, De Genadige
(1) Prijs de naam van jouw Heer, de Hoogste.
(2) Degene Die geschapen heeft en vervolmaakt.
(3) En Degene Die de maat bepaald heeft en Die geleid heeft.
(4) Degene die het weidegras doet groeien.
(5) En het daarna dor (en ) zwart maakt.
(6) Wij zullen (de Koran) aan jou voordragen en jij zult (hem) niet vergeten.
(7) Behalve wat Allah wil. Voorwaar, Hij kent het openlijke en het verborgene.
(8) En Wij zullen het gemakkelijke voor jou gemakkelijk maken.
(9) Vermaan daarom, als de Vermaning (hen) baat.
(10) Wie (Allah) vreest zal zich laten vermanen.
(11) Maar de ellendige zal het vermijden.
(12) Degene die het grote Vuur binnengaat.
(13) Hij zal dan daarin niet sterven en niet leven.
(14) Hij die zich reinigt (van zijn zonden) zal waarschijnlijk slagen.
(15) En (ook) die de Naam van zijn Heer gedenkt en het gebed verricht.
(16) Jullie geven immers voorrang aan het wereldse leven.
(17) Terwijl het Hiernamaals beter en blijvender is.
(18) Voorwaar, dit staat zeker in de vroegere bladen.
(19) De bladen van Abraham en Mozes.

Soera 87:1-19

Coolassprov MC
21-12-07, 11:02
Geplaatst door Slinger
In het kader van dit topic lijkt me het wel passend om de koran ook eens voor zichzelf te laten spreken.

Jij bent ziek en jouw ziekte heet Christendom.

Rourchid
22-12-07, 09:23
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
Jij bent ziek en jouw ziekte heet Christendom.
Zombies (the philosophical sort: this is not about voodoo) would be exactly like us in all physical and behavioural respects, but completely without consciousness. This seductive idea threatens the physicalist view of the world dominant in philosophy and science today. It has led a number of philosophers to reject physicalism and take up dualism.
Zombies and Consciouness, Robert Kirk. Oxford UP, 2005, 254 pp.

Slinger
22-12-07, 09:53
Geplaatst door Rourchid
Zombies (the philosophical sort: this is not about voodoo) would be exactly like us in all physical and behavioural respects, but completely without consciousness. This seductive idea threatens the physicalist view of the world dominant in philosophy and science today. It has led a number of philosophers to reject physicalism and take up dualism.
Zombies and Consciouness, Robert Kirk. Oxford UP, 2005, 254 pp.

Dus volgens jou ben ik een zombie zonder bewustzijn! Dat vraagt om nadere uitleg. Graag in je eigen woorden en in begrijpelijk Nederlands. Wat bedoel je met physicalism en dualism?

Iglo
22-12-07, 13:42
[Amos 7:16]GOD MAKES PEOPLE FALL IN ADULTERY
---------------------------------
God said to Am-a-zi'ah "You say, prophesy not against Israel and drop not
your word against the house of Isaac?
Thus the Lord says: YOUR WIFE SHALL BE AN HARLOT in the city and your sons
and your daughters shall fall by the sword."
Wel grappig als je dit leest. Kennelijk is het van ondergeschikt belang als god de kinderen van iemand laat doden, maar kan het echt niet dat god zijn vrouw een hoer laat worden...
Dan heb je wel een hele vreemde set waarden.

Rourchid
25-12-07, 23:19
Geplaatst door Rourchid
This seductive idea threatens the physicalist view of the world dominant in philosophy and science today.
Geplaatst door Slinger
Dus volgens jou ben ik een zombie zonder bewustzijn! Dat vraagt om nadere uitleg. Graag in je eigen woorden en in begrijpelijk Nederlands.


Er staat (vertaald) "Dit verleidelijke idee bedreigt etc." maar dat wil geenszins zeggen dat iedereen bezwijkt voor de verleiding.

Geplaatst door Slinger
Wat bedoel je met physicalism en dualism?


Het fysicalisme is de doctrine dat de wereld "contains just what a true complete physics
would say it contains" (Crane en Mellor,1990:186). Een dergelijke ware en complete
fysische theorie wordt geacht uitspraken te doen over (a) welke objecten de wereld bevat,
en (b) welke relaties er tussen die objecten bestaan. Op grond van die twee soorten
uitspraken kan een onderscheid gemaakt worden tussen een ontologisch fysicalisme
en een nomologisch fysicalisme. Het ontologisch fysicalisme beweert dat de kleinste deeltjes
fysische entiteiten zijn, en dat alles in deze wereld uiteindelijk is opgebouwd uit deze kleinste
fysische entiteiten. Het nomologisch fysicalisme beweert dat de fundamentele wetmatigheden3
fysische wetmatigheden zijn, en dat alles in deze wereld ondergeschikt is aan fysische
wetmatigheden.

Bron : http://home.wxs.nl/~gdalfsen/downloads/gda11110.pdf

Btw
Scope : In this course, we will attempt to unravel the nature of consciousness, its provenance, and its function. We begin with an examination of the concept of the zombie, which functions effectively as a physical entity without consciousness. If a system can solve problems and process information without consciousness, of what value is consciousness? The question of ethics is raised if we consider that entities without consciousness cannot be judged for their actions. Could such an entity strive for moral improvement? The subject of consciousness is vast and varied and, as a philosophical problem, far from an easy solution.
Consciousness and Its Implications (Twelve Lectures), Daniel N. Robinson. The Teaching Company, 2007, pp. 42 .

Slinger
26-12-07, 08:29
Geplaatst door Rourchid
Geplaatst door Slinger
Dus volgens jou ben ik een zombie zonder bewustzijn! Dat vraagt om nadere uitleg. Graag in je eigen woorden en in begrijpelijk Nederlands.


Er staat (vertaald) "Dit verleidelijke idee bedreigt etc." maar dat wil geenszins zeggen dat iedereen bezwijkt voor de verleiding.

Het fysicalisme is de doctrine dat de wereld "contains just what a true complete physics
would say it contains" (Crane en Mellor,1990:186). Een dergelijke ware en complete
fysische theorie wordt geacht uitspraken te doen over (a) welke objecten de wereld bevat,
en (b) welke relaties er tussen die objecten bestaan. Op grond van die twee soorten
uitspraken kan een onderscheid gemaakt worden tussen een ontologisch fysicalisme
en een nomologisch fysicalisme. Het ontologisch fysicalisme beweert dat de kleinste deeltjes
fysische entiteiten zijn, en dat alles in deze wereld uiteindelijk is opgebouwd uit deze kleinste
fysische entiteiten. Het nomologisch fysicalisme beweert dat de fundamentele wetmatigheden3
fysische wetmatigheden zijn, en dat alles in deze wereld ondergeschikt is aan fysische
wetmatigheden.

Bron : http://home.wxs.nl/~gdalfsen/downloads/gda11110.pdf

Btw
Scope : In this course, we will attempt to unravel the nature of consciousness, its provenance, and its function. We begin with an examination of the concept of the zombie, which functions effectively as a physical entity without consciousness. If a system can solve problems and process information without consciousness, of what value is consciousness? The question of ethics is raised if we consider that entities without consciousness cannot be judged for their actions. Could such an entity strive for moral improvement? The subject of consciousness is vast and varied and, as a philosophical problem, far from an easy solution.
Consciousness and Its Implications (Twelve Lectures), Daniel N. Robinson. The Teaching Company, 2007, pp. 42 .

Waar gaat het over?

Peter en de wolf is een muzikaal verhaal waarbij de verschillende personages door verschillende instrumenten worden uitgebeeld. Zo wordt Peter gespeeld door de Violen, de Wolf door de hoorn, ook de andere figuren worden gespeeld door een zeer typerend instrument, zoals het vogeltje dat door een fluit gespeeld wordt.

Het verhaal is leuk om voor te lezen, maar veel leuker om naar te luisteren wanneer de muzikale begeleiding gespeeld wordt. Voor sommige kinderen kan dit verhaal zeer spannend zijn.

Inhoud van de tas

In deze tas zitten een cd en een dvd. Dat is anders dan in de andere tassen. Juist omdat dit een belevingsverhaal is, heb ik er geen spelletjes aan toegevoegd. Het beleven van de muziek vind ik veel belangrijker bij dit verhaal.

- prentenboek Peter en de Wolf
- cd met luisterverhaal van Peter en de wolf (ingesproken door Paul de Leeuw)
- dvd Peter en de wolf
- Informatiegids voor de ouders
- tekenboek voor de kinderen om een mooie tekening over het boek te maken.

super ick
26-12-07, 10:31
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
Als ze moslims met hun Islamhaat overladen, is er niks aan de hand.

Ach ach weer zo een breedsprakige die zichzelf als verdediger van de moslims opwerpt?
Man de overgrote meerderheid van de moslims die hier wonen maken zich daar allang niet druk meer om. Je hoort ze niet.
Pas als je om kritiek kunt lachen ipv dat misplaatste gejank dan is er hoop voor jou. Probeer jou taboes niet op te dringen aan anderen. Jou geloof mag en zal bekritiseert worden. Wen er maar aan. Het stopt namelijk nooit. Sterker, des te feller de reacties, des te feller de kritiek.

Rourchid
26-12-07, 16:10
Geplaatst door Slinger
Waar gaat het over?

Ionische natuurfilosfie en transcendente filosofie.

Geplaatst door Slinger
Peter en de wolf is een muzikaal verhaal waarbij de verschillende personages door verschillende instrumenten worden uitgebeeld. Zo wordt Peter gespeeld door de Violen, de Wolf door de hoorn, ook de andere figuren worden gespeeld door een zeer typerend instrument, zoals het vogeltje dat door een fluit gespeeld wordt.

Het verhaal is leuk om voor te lezen, maar veel leuker om naar te luisteren wanneer de muzikale begeleiding gespeeld wordt. Voor sommige kinderen kan dit verhaal zeer spannend zijn.

Inhoud van de tas

In deze tas zitten een cd en een dvd. Dat is anders dan in de andere tassen. Juist omdat dit een belevingsverhaal is, heb ik er geen spelletjes aan toegevoegd. Het beleven van de muziek vind ik veel belangrijker bij dit verhaal.

- prentenboek Peter en de Wolf
- cd met luisterverhaal van Peter en de wolf (ingesproken door Paul de Leeuw)
- dvd Peter en de wolf
- Informatiegids voor de ouders
- tekenboek voor de kinderen om een mooie tekening over het boek te maken.
"laat de kinderen tot mij komen" (Marcus 10:14)

Slinger
26-12-07, 18:19
Geplaatst door Rourchid

"laat de kinderen tot mij komen" (Marcus 10:14)

Je begint het te begrijpen...

AmirAlMominien
29-12-07, 13:23
Geplaatst door super ick
Ach ach weer zo een breedsprakige die zichzelf als verdediger van de moslims opwerpt?
Man de overgrote meerderheid van de moslims die hier wonen maken zich daar allang niet druk meer om. Je hoort ze niet.
Pas als je om kritiek kunt lachen ipv dat misplaatste gejank dan is er hoop voor jou. Probeer jou taboes niet op te dringen aan anderen. Jou geloof mag en zal bekritiseert worden. Wen er maar aan. Het stopt namelijk nooit. Sterker, des te feller de reacties, des te feller de kritiek.
What ya babblin, nullo?

super ick
29-12-07, 16:57
Geplaatst door AmirAlMominien
What ya babblin, nullo?

Doe je gebit eens in, ik versta je niet.

Julien
29-12-07, 18:10
Geplaatst door Coolassprov MC
Jij bent ziek en jouw ziekte heet Christendom.

Heb voor het eerst een melding bij Beheer gedaan..

mark61
29-12-07, 23:54
Geplaatst door Julien
Heb voor het eerst een melding bij Beheer gedaan..

Die kennen die losgeslagen ADHD-kleuter al, maak je geen zorgen :lachu:

Maar aangezien Ibn Rushd op anti-beledigingskruistocht is geef je em wat te doen.

Rourchid
30-12-07, 12:29
Geplaatst door Julien
Heb voor het eerst een melding bij Beheer gedaan..
Kerygmatic ontology and postmodernistic epistemology in zombie-morality?