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IbnRushd
20-01-08, 20:38
De orthodoxie en Israel

In de democratie Israel hebben ze het ook niet altijd gemakkelijk. Er ontstaan nog wel eens conflicten tussen de ultra-orthodoxie en de seculiere joden van het land. Zo is er onlangs een klacht ingediend bij het Hooggerechtshof over de bussen die op verzoek van de ultra-orthodoxen ingedeeld zijn in mannen-voorin en vrouwen-achterin, de ‘mehadrin‘ lijnen. Het is namelijk openbaar vervoer, dat met publieke middelen wordt betaald.

De overheid verdedigt de segregatie met het argument dat die vrijwillig is. De passagiers die zich niet aan de vrijwillige indeling houden zeggen wat anders. Zo heeft Amerikaans-Israelische schrijfster Naomi Ragen, orthodox maar niet ultra, ervaren wat er gebeurt wanneer je nietsvermoedend een mehadrin bus instapt en op een lege plaats vooraan gaat zitten. Het werd schelden en bedreigen, en dat is de reden dat ze een klacht heeft ingediend. Miriam Shear, een toerist uit Canada, zegt dat ze werd geduwd, en klappen kreeg toen ze weigerde om achterin de bus te gaan zitten. Als de overheid hier niets aan wil doen dan wordt het een zaak voor de rechtbank, zegt hun advocaat.

Maar de controverses gaan dieper dan de segregatie in het openbaar vervoer.

Dat het ‘demografische gevaar’ een heet onderwerp is in Israel is geen geheim. Israel is bang de joodse meerderheid te verliezen in het land. Pogingen om joden uit andere landen te bewegen om naar Israeli te emigreren leveren weinig op. Ondanks het feit dat er geld werd geboden voor Iraanse joden om naar Israel te komen reageerde maar een handjevol. Nu is er onenigheid tussen het ‘progressief liberale kamp’ in Israel en de ultra-orthodoxie over hoe je jood kan worden. Dat is in Israel een zwaarwegend punt, want alleen joden hebben volledige burgerrechten. En alleen de orthodoxe rabbijnen hebben het recht te beslissen wie er jood mag worden.

Zo zijn er honderdduizenden Russen die met een joodse partner of een joodse ouder mee naar Israel gekomen zijn die hallachisch gezien (volgense de joodse wet) niet joods zijn omdat ze geen joodse moeder hebben en niet zijn ‘uitgekomen’. Dus: wie een joodse moeder heeft is joods, ook als hij of zij niet meer gelovig is, maar iemand die geen joodse moeder heeft en jood wil worden kan dat alleen door zich aan de zeer strenge religieuze eisen te conformeren, en daar lang over te doen. Anders dan andere religies is het judaisme niet geinteresseerd in ‘zieltjes winnen’, en worden bekeerlingen eerder afgehouden dan uitgenodigd. In de VS is het mogelijk ook bij liberale rabbijnen ‘uit te komen’, in Israel worden zulke softe bekeringen niet erkend. Daar houdt de ultra-orthodoxie de touwtjes stevig in handen.

Niet-joden, mensen met een joodse vader maar geen joodse moeder bijvoorbeeld, hebben het in Israel moeilijk. Onder andere omdat Israel geen burgerlijk huwelijk kent, en de religieuze instanties geen huwelijken tussen joden en niet-joden willen sluiten. Die moeten dus uitwijken naar het buitenland. Waarna de kinderen uit een huwelijk met een niet-joodse vrouw en een joodse man opnieuw niet joods zijn. ‘Uitkomen’ als jood is dus een lang en moeizaam proces, en de orthodoxie zit er niet op te wachten om duizenden Russen soepeltjes te ‘bekeren’. Tot ergernis van wat zich het liberale en progressieve kamp noemt.

Michael Warschawski, de zoon van een opperrabbijn van Straatsburg, inmiddels niet meer zionist, windt zich er over op. Is dat progressief, zegt hij, in een artikel Citizenship, Zionism and Separation of religion from te State (hier) wanneer liberalen beginnen te ijveren voor de versoepeling van religieuze wetten, in plaats van de dominantie van religie en de afwezigheid van een scheiding tussen staat en religie af te wijzen?
Het is duidelijk dat het liberale kamp nog steeds blijft funktioneren binnen de zionistische ideologie, die staat en valt bij de joodse meerderheid en dus bij de definitie wie een jood is en dus de macht op wie er een volledig staatsburger van de joodse staat mag zijn in handen laat van de religieuze instanties.

De meerderheid in Israel heeft flink de pest aan de ultra-orthodoxie, zegt Warschawski, al was het maar dat zij bepalen wat ook niet-gelovigen wel en niet mogen op de sabbath. Maar geen van die liberalen durft zo ver te gaan dat ze pleiten voor een werkelijke scheiding tussen ‘kerk’ en staat, waarbij de religieuzen zich niet mogen bemoeien met staatszaken en de staat zich niet mag bemoeien met de wijze waarop burgers, privé, hun leven inrichten. En is dat niet een belangrijk criterium van een moderne democratie? Niet alleen de seculieren laten zich ringeloren, vindt Warschawski, het is ook duidelijk dat de zogenaamde progressieven de dominantie van de ultra-orthodoxie in wezen accepteren - al willen ze die een beetje versoepelen om aan meer joden te komen - omdat ze het uiteindelijk niet aandurven om alle burgers van Israel, dus inclusief de Palestijnen die er wonen, los van religie dezelfde rechten te geven. Want in een werkelijke democratie, zegt Warschawski, laat je het niet aan de religieuze instanties over om te beslissen wie er burgers mogen zijn en welke rechten die burgers hebben. Of te beslissen dat een niet-joodse Rus die zich wil laten bekeren meer rechten zou hebben dan een niet-joodse Arabier van wie de voorvaderen er al eeuwen wonen.

En zo blijft ook progressief en liberaal Israel, zij het mopperend, accepteren dat de rabbijnen in hun democratie het laatste woord hebben over wie er bij horen en wie niet.

bron: weblog anja meulenbelt

ronald
20-01-08, 21:14
Dit is op zijn minst al 60 jarige oude koek.

Wizdom
20-01-08, 21:22
Geplaatst door ronald
Dit is op zijn minst al 60 jarige oude koek.

En al 60 jaar heeft men het over een democratisch i.p.v. theocratisch Israel.... Hoe zou dat nou komen?

Marsipulami
20-01-08, 21:23
Geplaatst door ronald
Dit is op zijn minst al 60 jarige oude koek.

Na zestig jaar zal jij er dan ook wel een mening over hebben. Wat is jouw standpunt terzake ?

ronald
20-01-08, 21:26
Geplaatst door Wizdom
En al 60 jaar heeft men het over een democratisch i.p.v. theocratisch Israel.... Hoe zou dat nou komen?

Volgens mij heb ik dat hier al tig keer uitgelegd maar goed. De seculiere Joden hebben al ten tijde van de Engelsen een overeenkomst met de orthodoxie gesloten dat huwelijk en scheiding in de handen blijft van de orthodoxe rabbinaten om mamzeriem (bastaards tot lengte van generaties) te voorkomen. Logisch dat je als rabbinaat ook geen huwelijken met niet-Joden sluit en niet-Joden volgens de orthodoxe regels joods laat worden.

Wizdom
20-01-08, 21:31
Geplaatst door ronald
Volgens mij heb ik dat hier al tig keer uitgelegd maar goed. De seculiere Joden hebben al ten tijde van de Engelsen een overeenkomst met de orthodoxie gesloten dat huwelijk en scheiding in de handen blijft van de orthodoxe rabbinaten om mamzeriem (bastaards tot lengte van generaties) te voorkomen. Logisch dat je als rabbinaat ook geen huwelijken met niet-Joden sluit en niet-Joden volgens de orthodoxe regels joods laat worden.

Dat zijn toch fundamentele zaken van een samenleving... Waarom zou een seculiere samenleving toegeven aan Rabijnen... Of is dat seculiere alleen een vorm van window dressing...

Dan heb je toch geen democratie maar een theocratie a la Iran als je als regering toegeeft aan religieuze opvattingen...

Khamenei houdt zich ook niet bezig met de dagelijkse bestuur van het land maar heeft wel bindende opvattingen over de fundamenten van de samenleving... Ook in Iran worden er om de zoveel tijd verkiezingen gehouden... So whats in a name...

ronald
20-01-08, 21:34
Geplaatst door Wizdom
Dat zijn toch fundamentele zaken van een samenleving... Waarom zou een seculiere samenleving toegeven aan Rabijnen... Of is dat seculiere alleen een vorm van window dressing...

Dan heb je toch geen democratie maar een theocratie a la Iran als je als regering toegeeft aan religieuze opvattingen...

Op zijn verst waren diens grootouders orthodox en er blijft altijd wel wat hangen. Theocratie? Wat dan met al die andere 613 ge- en verboden en hun uitvloeisels van de joodse wet? Beetje snel door de bocht.

ronald
20-01-08, 21:35
Geplaatst door Marsipulami
Na zestig jaar zal jij er dan ook wel een mening over hebben. Wat is jouw standpunt terzake ?


Precies dezelfde als die de orthodoxe rabbijnen hadden. Geen mm naar liberaal.

Wizdom
20-01-08, 21:46
Geplaatst door ronald
Op zijn verst waren diens grootouders orthodox en er blijft altijd wel wat hangen. Theocratie? Wat dan met al die andere 613 ge- en verboden en hun uitvloeisels van de joodse wet? Beetje snel door de bocht.

Dat geldt net zo goed voor een Islamitische rechtsstaat of zo je wilt een theocratie... Er is geen enkele theocratie die alle x geboden kan controleren in het dagelijkse leven als de fundamenten maar worden bewaakt... Dat hebben ze in Israel in ieder geval wel degelijk geregeld...

Maar is het niet zo dat de tendens is dat de Rabijjnen steed meer invloed krijgen in Israel en daarbuiten in het dagelijks leven van de Israel gezinden... Er komt steeds meer naar buiten via de media waarin de invloed van de Rabijnnen niet is te onderschatten binnen de Israel gezinde samenleving...

ronald
20-01-08, 22:52
Geplaatst door Wizdom
Dat geldt net zo goed voor een Islamitische rechtsstaat of zo je wilt een theocratie... Er is geen enkele theocratie die alle x geboden kan controleren in het dagelijkse leven als de fundamenten maar worden bewaakt... Dat hebben ze in Israel in ieder geval wel degelijk geregeld...

Maar is het niet zo dat de tendens is dat de Rabijjnen steed meer invloed krijgen in Israel en daarbuiten in het dagelijks leven van de Israel gezinden... Er komt steeds meer naar buiten via de media waarin de invloed van de Rabijnnen niet is te onderschatten binnen de Israel gezinde samenleving...

Binnen deze discussie heeft niemand iets met de Islam of een Islamitisch land te maken. Ooit gehoord dat er maar 1 rabbijn is die voorstelt iemand op te hangen?

Kom eens met wat meer waarover de rabbijnen het voor het zeggen hebben?

Wizdom
21-01-08, 00:22
Geplaatst door ronald
Binnen deze discussie heeft niemand iets met de Islam of een Islamitisch land te maken. Ooit gehoord dat er maar 1 rabbijn is die voorstelt iemand op te hangen?

Kom eens met wat meer waarover de rabbijnen het voor het zeggen hebben?

Waarom neem je geen voorbeeld aan de familie al-Khattab... Orthodoxe joden die zich bekeerden tot de Islam omdat zij inzagen dat de Islam het ware geloof is van Allah (SWT) als je zegt dat je waarlijk de echte Schepper EERT.

Intrested in having the al-Khattab family speak at your Masjid of Islamic event?
The al-Khattabs are available to tell his Journey to Islam at your Masjid or Islamic Event inshallah.

Having spoken at Beir Zeit University, Melbourne University, Harakat Islamia in numerous areas of Palestine aswell as countless other Masajids, Yousef has appeard on UK channel 4, Al Jazera, Islamonline countless Arabic tv channels aswell as Reuters , Associated Press and many more.

The al-Khattab family currently reside in Morocco and are ready, willing, and able to travel to your events inshallah. for more information you can contact Yousef


http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

ronald
21-01-08, 00:23
Geplaatst door Wizdom
Waarom neem je geen voorbeeld aan de familie al-Khattab... Orthodoxe joden die zich bekeerden tot de Islam omdat zij inzagen dat de Islam het ware geloof is van Allah (SWT) als je zegt dat je waarlijk de echte Schepper EERT.

Intrested in having the al-Khattab family speak at your Masjid of Islamic event?
The al-Khattabs are available to tell his Journey to Islam at your Masjid or Islamic Event inshallah.

Having spoken at Beir Zeit University, Melbourne University, Harakat Islamia in numerous areas of Palestine aswell as countless other Masajids, Yousef has appeard on UK channel 4, Al Jazera, Islamonline countless Arabic tv channels aswell as Reuters , Associated Press and many more.

The al-Khattab family currently reside in Morocco and are ready, willing, and able to travel to your events inshallah. for more information you can contact Yousef


http://www.jews-for-allah.org/

Gd verbiedt mij dat.

Wizdom
21-01-08, 00:32
Geplaatst door ronald
Gd verbiedt mij dat.

The Qur'an is a Jewish Book

by Ya'akov

The Quran and Jewish Patriarchs and Prophets

The first time a Jew reads the Quran he is often surprised by the fact that the Quran does not focus on Muhammed, Ishmael or the Arab people. Instead the Quran focuses primarilly on the Jewish patriarchs and prophets. The Quran concerns itself primarily with the history and future of the Children of Israel. Thus the primary figures of the Quran are figures like Abraham, Joseph, Moses and King David. In fact the primary figure of the Quran is Moshe Aveynu (Moses our father) who is mentioned more than any other individual in the Quran. Many Jews are surprised to learn that one entire "Surah" (chapter) of the Quran (Surah 17) is titled "The Children of Israel".

The Father of Jews the mentioned most in Quran

Of all the Prophets cited in the Quran, our Prophet Moses is talked about the most, even more than Prophet Muhammad, within the Quran, his life, journies, and relationships with the children of Israel is spoken about more than other Prophets.

176 Verses in the Quran mention the name of Prophet Moses:

002.051 002.053 002.054 002.055 002.060 002.061 002.067 002.068 002.069 002.071 002.087 002.092 002.108 002.136 002.246 002.248 003.003 003.084 003.093 004.153 004.164 005.020 005.022 005.024 005.044 006.084 006.091 006.154 007.103 007.104 007.107 007.115 007.116 007.117 007.122 007.127 007.128 007.131 007.132 007.134 007.138 007.142 007.143 007.144 007.148 007.150 007.151 007.154 007.155 007.159 007.160 010.075 010.077 010.080 010.081 010.083 010.084 010.087 010.088 010.089 011.017 011.096 011.110 014.005 014.006 014.008 017.002 017.101 017.102 018.060 018.062 018.064 018.066 018.069 018.071 018.073 018.074 018.076 018.077 019.051 020.009 020.011 020.017 020.019 020.025 020.036 020.040 020.045 020.049 020.057 020.059 020.061 020.065 020.067 020.070 020.077 020.083 020.086 020.088 020.091 020.092 020.095 020.097 021.048 021.105 022.044 023.045 023.049 025.035 026.010 026.018 026.020 026.024 026.026 026.028 026.030 026.032 026.043 026.045 026.048 026.052 026.053 026.061 026.062 026.063 026.064 026.065 026.066 027.007 027.009 027.010 028.003 028.007 028.008 028.010 028.011 028.015 028.018 028.019 028.020 028.029 028.030 028.031 028.036 028.037 028.038 028.043 028.044 028.046 028.048 028.076 029.039 032.023 033.007 033.069 037.114 037.120 040.023 040.026 040.027 040.037 040.053 041.045 042.013 043.046 043.052 043.054 046.012 046.030 051.038 053.036 061.005 062.005 079.015 079.020 087.019

While only 4 mention the name of Prophet Muhammad.

The Quran teaches that the Jews are Elohim's Chosen People

Children of Israel! call to mind the favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others. (Surah 2:47 repeated in 2:122)

Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.(Surah 5:21)



We did deliver aforetime the Children of Israel from humiliating Punishment, Inflicted by Pharaoh, for he was arrogant (even) among inordinate transgressors. And We chose them aforetime above the nations, knowingly, (Surah 44:30-32)



We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophethood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favoured them above the nations. (Surah 45:16)

The Quran and Jewish Liturgy

The opening Surah of the Quran is very comparable to the traditional Jewish liturgy. Traditional Jewish blessings generally begin with:

Baruch Atta Adonai, Eloheynu Melech HaOlam

"Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the universe/world"

Surah 1:1 reads (in Hebrew):

Baruch L'Elohim, Ribon HaOlamim

"Blessing to Elohim, Master of the Worlds."

In fact there is nothing about Surah 1 (apart from its being part of the Quran) that would prevent it from being uttered as a Jewish prayer. It could easily appear in a Jewish prayer book if it were not for the fact that someone might say... "wait a minute this is from the Quran!".



The Talmuds, Midrashim, Targums and the Quran

Many Quran stories and sayings appear elsewhere only in the Mishnah, Talmud, Midrashim and Targums.

Islamic teachers have often, unfortunately taught that the extra-biblical traditions of Judaism are false and are of no value to the Believer. On the contrary however the Quran makes it clear that many of the extra-biblical Jewish traditions preserved in the Midrashim, Talmuds, Mishna etc. contain truth.

A primary example is that of the story of Abraham and his father the idol maker. The same basic story appears in the Talmud, the Midrash Rabbah and the Midrash Sefer Ha-Yashar. It also appears in the Quran but it does NOT appear in the Bible at all.

The story appears this way in Midrash Rabbah: Terah was an idolator once he went away and left Abraham to sell his idols. Whenever a buyer came, Abraham asked him his age. If he replied, I am fifty, or sixty years old, Abraham said 'Woe to the man of sixty who desires to worship the work of a day, so that the buyer went away ashamed.'1 Once a woman came, with a dish of wheat and said, 'Here, put this before them;' but Abraham took a stick and beat down all the idols, and put the stick into the hands of the largest idol when his father returned, he said, 'Who has done this?'

On which Abraham replied, 'Why should I deny it?, A woman came with a dish of wheat and bade me set it in front of them. I had scarcely done so when each wanted to eat before the other, and the greatest beat them all down with the stick which he had in his hand. Terah said: 'What art thou inventing for me?

Have they then understanding?' Abraham replied, 'Do thine ears not hear what thy month says?' Then Terah took him and gave him over to Nimrod, who said: 'We will worship fire.' Abraham said: 'Rather water, which extinguishes. ' Nimrod replied: 'Water then.' 'Rather the cloud which carries water.' 'The cloud then.' 'Rather the wind which scatters the cloud.' 'The wind then.' 'Rather men, who endure the wind. Nimrod at this became angry and said:

'Thou art only making a speech. I worship fire and will throw thee into it. The God whom thou dost worship may come and save thee out of it.' Abraham was then thrown into a glowing furnace, but was saved from it. (Midrash Rabbah on Gen. Paragraph 38)

A comparison of this story with the parallel story in the Quarn reveals unique similarities in the Qur'an and the Midrash which appear nowhere in the Bible.

The Qur'anic account of Abraham and the idols commences in Sura 6:74 where Abraham is quoted as saying "Takest thou idols for gods?" and this theme is then expanded in Sura 21:51-71. It is exactly the same theme as the Midrash where Abraham takes issue over the idols of his father.

The shared themes in the Midrashic account:

The Midrashic account is cited here and the Qur'anic equivalent can be found in the ayats in the brackets.

1. Abraham's father accused of being an idolater: "Terah (Abraham's father) was a manufacturer of idols" ie. He was an idolater. (52)

2. "He once went away somewhere and left Abraham..." (57)

3. Abraham breaks all the idols except the biggest: "So he took a stick, broke them, (the idols) and put the stick in the hand of the largest." (58)

4. "When his father returned he demanded, 'What have you done to them?'" (59)

(In the Qur'anic account this demand is made by his father and the people.) Abraham claims: "Thereupon the largest arose, took the stick, and broke them." (63)

6. Abraham is seized and delivered up for judgement: "Thereupon he seized him and delivered him to Nimrod." (68)

The Qur'an does not mention by name who was to punish Abraham.

7. Abraham is saved from the fire:

"When Abram descended into the fiery furnace and was saved..." (69)

All the above points are unique both to the Qur'anic and the Midrashic accounts.

They do not appear anywhere in the Bible.

Another example is the story of the Queen of Sheba (Surah 27:20-44) which appears elsewhere only in a Midrash interjected in a Targum to Esther:

Then the wild rooster replied before King Solomon, saying to him; 'Hear my words, My Lord, O king, incline your ear and listen (to) my utterances. Have not three months (passed) that I have given advice and counsel; my words are truth; I did not eat food, nor did I drink water before I flew throughout the whole world inspecting it, saying; Is there a country whose ruler is not subservient to my lord, O king? Whereupon I noticed a certain country in the land of the East, its name was the city of Qitor, whose dust is so precious and whose gold and silver exists like dung in the streets.

They do not know anything about waging war; they are unable to draw the bow; However, truly I have seen a single woman rule over them and her name is the Queen of Sheba.

Then the scribes of the king were summoned and they wrote a letter and tied the letter to the wing of the wild rooster, which proceeded to ascend heavenward and soared soaringly. It then flew among the birds which proceeded to follow it in flight; they went on to the city of Qitor to the land of Sheba. Towards morning the Queen of Sheba went out to worship the sea (? ) - when (suddenly) the birds obscured the sunlight, which caused her to take hold of her clothes and tear them. Whereupon she was very stunned. As she was in her very stunned state, the wild rooster descended towards her, and she observed a letter tied to is wing.

So she untied (it) and read it; and what was written in it? - From me, the kingdom of Solomon: Peace to you, peace to your princes.

As you know; the Holy One, Blessed be He, appointed me to reign over the wild beasts, over the fowl of the heavens and over demons and spirits.

Now all the kings of the East, the West, the South and the North come to greet me. Now if you wish to come and greet me, I will show you greater honour than all those whom I have hosted before me.

But if you do not wish to come and greet me, I will send kings and legions against you (which belong) to King Solomon.

The wild beasts are the kings, the fowl of the heavens are the raiders, the armies are the spirits, and the demons and the Liliths are the legions (who will) strangle you in your beds inside your houses; the wild beasts will kill you in the field; the fowl of the heavens (will) eat your flesh from you.

When the Queen of Sheba heard the words of the letter, she took hold of her clothes and tore them. She then summoned her elders and princes and said to them; 'Do you know what King Solomon told me?' They replied, saying: 'We do not know King Solomon nor do we recognise his kingdom.

' But she did not trust (them) and did not heed their words. She summoned all the ships of the sea and had them loaded with bracelets, pearls and precious gems. She then wrote a letter and sent it to King Solomon.......

'And now, with prayer and supplication which I will plead before you, I will come to you at the end of three years,' Now it came about at the end of three years that the Queen of Sheba came to King Solomon.

Now when King Solomon heard that she was coming to him, King Solomon arose and went to sit down in a bathhouse. When the Queen saw that the king was sitting in a bathhouse, she thought to herself the king must be sitting in water. So she raised her dress to wade across.

Whereupon he noticed the hair on her leg, to which King Solomon responded by saying: 'Your beauty is the beauty of women, but your hair is the hair of men. Now hair is beautiful for a man but shameful for a woman.' Whereupon the Queen of Sheba answered saying to him: O lord king 'I will cite you three riddles;

if you will solve them for me I will acknowledge that you are a wise man, but if not, (you are) like the rest of mankind....

Whereupon she commented, saying to him: 'I would not have believed it. Praiseworthy are these your servants.' Whereupon he brought her into the royal palace. Now when the Queen of Sheba saw the greatness and glory of King Solomon, she offered praise to the One Who created him, saying: 'Blessed be the Lord, your God who has chosen you to place you on the throne of His kingdom to do righteousness and justice.' She then gave the king a great deal of fine gold while the king gave her what she desired.

One final example is Sura 5:27-32 which is the Qur'anic story of Cain and Abel. Initially, the Torah and the Qur'an basically agree on the narrative, however in ayat 31, the two diverge.

Then God sent down a raven, which dug the earth to show him how to bury the naked corpse of his brother. (Sura 5:31)

We find a striking parallel between the Quran and a Jewish Midrash, the "Pirke Rabbi Eliezer". In Pirke Rabbi Eliezer we find this story:

Adam and his companion sat weeping and mourning for him (Abel) and did not know what to do with him as burial was unknown to them. Then came a raven, whose companion was dead, took its body, scratched in the earth, and hid it before their eyes;

then said Adam, "I shall do as this raven has done", and at once he took Abel's corpse, dug in the earth and hid it. The similarity is obvious. The only difference is that the Qur'an says Cain did the burying, the Midrash says Adam did the burying.

The next Qur'anic verse further illustrates the point:

That is why We laid it down for the Israelites that whoever killed a human being, except as punishment for murder or other villainy in the land, shall be deemed as though he had killed all mankind; and that whoever saved a human life shall be deemed as though he had saved all mankind. (Sura 5:32)

Initially, there appears to be no connection between verses 31 and 32. Why the life or death of one should be as the salvation or destruction of all mankind in not made clear in the Qur'an. When we turn to another Jewish record - the Mishnah, we find the link between the story and what follows:

We find it said in the case of Cain who murdered his brother, "The voice of thy brother's bloods crieth" (Gen. 4:10).

It is not said here blood in the singular, but bloods in the plural, that is, his own blood and the blood of his seed. Man was created single in order to show that to him who kills a single individual it shall be reckoned that he has slain the whole race, but to him who preserves the life of a single individual it is counted that he hath preserved the whole race. m.Sanhedrin 4:5

Because the word for blood is in the plural in Gen. 4:10 the Mishah teaches that all Abel's offspring had been killed with him which signified that any murder or life-saving act had universal implications.

Here is a clear instance where a study of the Mishnah sheds light and gives greater understanding to the Quran!

The Quran: Predicted by the Jewish Prophets of the Tanak

Revealed to an illiterate

Isaiah 29:12 (read verses 11 through 18 for full context)
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Revelation from Kedar

I {am} the Lord: that {is} my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and the new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. `Sing unto the Lord a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth'. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voices, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto the Lord, and declare His praise in the inlands." (Isaiah 42:8-12.)

God did reveal in the Land of Kedar, to the Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh)- a descendant of Kedar - a "New Song", the Qur'an (Koran), in the language of the Kedarites. The verses of the Qur'an are recited like a poem.

Revelation Piece By Piece

Isaiah 28:10-13 (read verses 10 through 16 for full context)
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

In a new language


Isaiah 28:11-12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.


12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

In conclusion, the Quran is a book for the Jews, Allah loves the Jews and sent the Holy Koran as a book of guidance for the Jews.

Revealed to someone like Moses

In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).1

From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics:

1) That he will be like Moses.

2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.

3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.

Let us examine these three characteristics in more depth:

1) A prophet like Moses:
There were hardly any two prophets who were so much alike as Moses and Muhammad. Both were given a comprehensive law and code of life. Both encountered their enemies and were victorious in miraculous ways. Both were accepted as prophets and statesmen. Both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them. Analogies between Moses and Jesus overlook not only the above similarities but other crucial ones as well. These include the natural birth, the family life, and death of Moses and Muhammad but not of Jesus. Moreover Jesus was regarded by his followers as the Son of God and not exclusively as a prophet of God, as Moses and Muhammad were and as Muslims believe Jesus was. So, this prophecy refers to the Prophet Muhammad and not to Jesus, because Muhammad is more like Moses than Jesus.

Also, one notices from the Gospel of John that the Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of three distinct prophecies. The first was the coming of Christ. The second was the coming of Elijah. The third was the coming of the Prophet. This is obvious from the three questions that were posed to John the Baptist: “Now this was John’s testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” He answered, “No.” (John 1:19-21). If we look in a Bible with cross-references, we will find in the marginal notes where the words “the Prophet” occur in John 1:21, that these words refer to the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18 We conclude from this that Jesus Christ is not the prophet mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.

2) From the brothers of the Israelites:
Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation, and Isaac became the grandfather of the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, i.e. the Ishmaelites. Muhammad, a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed this prophet.

Also, Isaiah 42:1-13 speaks of the servant of God, His “chosen one” and “messenger” who will bring down a law. “He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth. In his law the islands will put their hope.” (Isaiah 42:4). Verse 11, connects that awaited one with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammad.

3) God will put His words in the mouth of this prophet:
The words of God (the Holy Quran) were truly put into Muhammad’s mouth. God sent the Angel Gabriel to teach Muhammad the exact words of God (the Holy Quran) and asked him to dictate them to the people as he heard them. The words are therefore not his own. They did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the Angel Gabriel. During the life time of Muhammad, and under his supervision, these words were then memorized and written by his companions.

Also, this prophecy in Deuteronomy mentioned that this prophet will speak the words of God in the name of God. If we looked to the Holy Quran, we will find that all its chapters, except Chapter 9, are preceded or begin with the phrase, “In the Name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.”


Another indication (other than the prophecy in Deuteronomy) is that Isaiah ties the messenger connected with Kedar with a new song (a scripture in a new language) to be sung to the Lord (Isaiah 42:10-11). This is mentioned more clearly in the prophecy of Isaiah: “and another tongue, will he speak to this people” (Isaiah 28:11 KJV). Another related point, is that the Quran was revealed in sections over a span of twenty-three years. It is interesting to compare this with Isaiah 28 which speaks of the same thing, “For it is: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there.” (Isaiah 28:10).

Note that God has said in the prophecy of Deuteronomy 18, “If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy, 18:19). This means that whoever believes in the Bible must believe in what this prophet says, and this prophet is the Prophet Muhammad.


In conclusion, the Quran is a book for the Jews, Allah loves the Jews and sent the Holy Koran as a book of guidance for the Jews.

ronald
21-01-08, 00:47
Geplaatst door Wizdom
The Qur'an is a Jewish Book

by Ya'akov

The Quran and Jewish Patriarchs and Prophets



In conclusion, the Quran is a book for the Jews, Allah loves the Jews and sent the Holy Koran as a book of guidance for the Jews.

Dacht het niet. Beetje domme conclusie trouwens. Ik snap het van jou uit gezien wel hoor. Maar Gdsdienst behoort universalistisch te zijn. Voor mij het Jodendom en voor jou de Islam en voor de Christen het Christendom. Waarom heb je daar problemen mee?
Ik zou maar eerst in Tenach kijken wat Gd Joden wel of niet zegt te doen en dan terug komen. Weet je wel welke straf daarop staat?