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Bekijk Volledige Versie : Blogging te Quran: wekelijks stap voor stap uitleg van de Koran.



VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 16:14
Sterk project! Voor alle gelovigen en vooral ongelovigen die het Engels meester zijn hier een mogelijkheid om werkelijk kennis op te doen over de Koran en de Islam. Wekelijks gaat Ziauddin Sardar, een bekende Britse islamistische intellectueel, een hoofdstuk uit de Koran uitleggen en zijn bijzonderheden toelichten. Hier kan je je inschrijven op de wekelijkse update:
http://www.feedburner.com/fb/a/emailverifySubmit?feedId=1575434&loc=en_US

Hier is de site, kan je meediscussieren en de vorderingen volgen:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/



Inhoudsopgave:

Week one:
a) Personal narrative (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/01/01_introduction.html)
b) Nature and Style of the Qur'an (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/01/nature_and_style_of_the_quran.html)
c) Study and Interpretation (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/01/reading_and_interpretation.html)
Week two: al-Fatiha 1-5: God (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/01/alfatiha_15.html)
Week three: al-Fatiha 6-7 (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/03_alfatiha_67/)
Week four: al-Baqara 1-7: The Qur'an and doubt (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/04_albaqara_17/)
Week five: al-Baqara 8-20 Belief and action (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/05_albaqara_820/)
Week six: al-Baqara: 21-29: Paradise (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/06_albaqara_2129/)
Week seven: al-Baqara 30-39: Iblis and evil (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/07_albaqara_3039/)
Week eight: al-Baqara: 40-141 Children of Israel (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/08_albaqara_40141/)
Week nine: al-Baqara: 142-152: Middle community (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/09_albaqara_142152/)
Week 10: al-Baqara: 153-177: Virtuous people (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/10_albaqara_153177/)
Week 11: al-Baqara 178-182: Crime and punishment (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/11_albaqara_178182/)Week 12: al-Baqara 183-189: Fasting
Week 13: al-Baqara: 190-195: Jihad, war and peace
Week 14: al-Baqara: 196-203: Hajj
Week 15: al-Baqara: 204-218: Migration
Week 16: al-Baqara: 219-242: Marriage and divorce
Week 17: al-Baqara 243-254: Exodus
Week 18: al-Baqara 255-257: Majesty of God and freedom of religion
Week 19: al-Baqara 258-260: Arguing with God
Week 20: al-Baqara 261-281: Charity and usury
Week 21: al-Baqara 282: One man, two women, witness
Week 22: al-Baqara 284-286: Prayer - souls get what they deserve

Themes and concepts

Week 23: Abrogation and change
Week 24: Truth and plurality
Week 25: Humanity and community
Week 26: Individual and society
Week 27: Reason and knowledge
Week 28: Justice and equity
Week 29: Race and prejudice
Week 30: Nature and environment
Week 31: Ethics and morality
Week 32: Reading and writing

Topics

Week 33: Translations
Week 34: Sharia
Week 35: Family
Week 36: Women
Week 37: Veil
Week 38: Sex
Week 39: Homosexuality
Week 40: Freedom
Week 41: Jesus
Week 42: Love
Week 43: Hope
Week 44: Suicide
Week 45: Evolution
Week 46: Generosity
Week 47: Responsibility
Week 48: Forgiveness
Week 49: Patience
Week 50: Humility
Week 51: Time 103: 1-3
Week 52: People 112: 1-6

knuppeltje
27-03-08, 16:54
Sterk project! Voor alle gelovigen en vooral ongelovigen die het Engels meester zijn hier een mogelijkheid om werkelijk kennis op te doen over de Koran en de Islam.

Maar weer goed dat iedereen hier het Engels goed meester is denk, want voor dat je het weet sluit je zo hele volksstammen buiten deze goddelijke kennis. :vreemd:

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 17:02
Maar weer goed dat iedereen hier het Engels goed meester is denk, want voor dat je het weet sluit je zo hele volksstammen buiten deze goddelijke kennis. :vreemd:
Tja, het leven is je al gratis en voor niks gegeven; het probleem met ongelovigen is dat ze alles in de schoot geworpen willen krijgen.

knuppeltje
27-03-08, 17:14
Tja, het leven is je al gratis en voor niks gegeven; het probleem met ongelovigen is dat ze alles in de schoot geworpen willen krijgen.

Volgens mij intepreteer je dat niet juist, moet je toch eens met die Engelsman van je over hebben. :vreemd:

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 17:20
Volgens mij intepreteer je dat niet juist, moet je toch eens met die Engelsman van je over hebben. :vreemd:
Dit zijn mijn woorden, niet die van de Koran. Hoezo dan? Overweldigen mijn woorden jou misschien net als de Koran bij gelovigen doet?

Hou je voor de rest uit dit topic als je niks inhoudelijks weet in te brengen.

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 17:23
Nature and style of the Qur'an
The Qur'an is definitely not a linear text. It defies expectations of being a simple story and raises questions about why it is structured as it is
January 11, 2008

Expectations tend to condition our reactions. Think of the hype in cinema adverts: they string together some of the best bits of a film and we expect fireworks throughout. But the edited highlights bear little relation to the whole, which can turn out to be a damp squib. The result is not just disappointment but a sense of being cheated of our justified expectations. So, as I start these blogs, I begin with some words of caution by way of conditioning your expectations.

Clearly Muslims and non-Muslims approach the Qur'an with different expectations. The distinction is significant. The definition of a Muslim is a person who believes the Qur'an to be the direct word of God as communicated to the prophet Muhammad. Therefore, Muslims approach the Qur'an with an implicit acceptance of its style and nature. It would be inconceivable to start with the question: "Why isn't God telling me a normal story with a beginning, a middle and an end?" This is not to suggest Muslims do not question, it is merely to point out that our questions start from a different point; and they are concerned with the meaning and understanding we should take from the nature and style of our holy book.

Non-Muslims tend to approach the Qur'an with the Torah and the Bible in mind - and then get very perplexed because the Qur'an is not like that at all. The Torah and the Old Testament begin with God's creation of the universe and all it contains and then proceed with a straightforward history of the people of Israel and their prophets. The gospels give a chronological account of the life of Jesus as the central narrative thread through which his teachings are presented, then turn to the development of early Christianity. The Qur'an provides neither a chronology of God's revelations to humanity nor a linear narrative of the life and times of the prophet Muhammad. Non-Muslims have said its style is not just confusing but incomprehensible.

The Qur'an is definitely not a linear text. For example, the first verses revealed to the prophet Muhammad are not at the beginning but at the start of the 96th chapter of the Qur'an (96:1-5). The last revelation comes in the third verse of the fifth (5:3) of the Qur'an's 114 chapters, known as surahs. Moreover, the Qur'an does not deal with its subjects in one place but in several places, dropping them suddenly and then picking up later in the text. It says one thing on one subject in one place, and something quite different on the same subject elsewhere.

What we can all agree on is that the structure and style of the Qur'an is complex. It defies expectations of being a simple story and therefore raises questions about how and why it is structured as it is and what we should understand from this arrangement.

Sound plays a very important part in the structure of the Qur'an. Before it was a written text, the Qur'an existed as sound; this is why it is often compared to an epic poem. But I like to think of it in terms of a musical symphony. Just like the notes in a symphony may be repeated, so the verses in the Qur'an are frequently repeated. Just as misplaced notes may play havoc with the whole symphony so a misreading of the Qur'an leads the whole text to be out of sync. This is why Muslims pay so much attention to the correct reading of the Qur'an. You can hear how different sections should sound on the Qur'an Explorer website.

We know that the prophet Muhammad, like most of his community in Mecca, was illiterate. His response to the first word of revelation, "iqra" ("read"), was: "I cannot." But an illiterate community is skilled in oral tradition, the ability to commit words to memory. Muhammad repeated each revelation to his growing circle of followers who committed the words to memory. He recited the growing body of the Qur'an in prayers, which is how the characteristic form of Muslim prayer developed. There were also a number of scribes who wrote down the revealed verses and worked with Muhammad to arrange these written texts in the proper order.

The Qur'an uses a heightened form of Arabic that is unlike any other Arabic text in its language and use of language. This means even native Arabic speakers have to struggle with its words and their meaning. The language of the Qur'an stretched the oral traditions of society, but also utilised its conventions in its strong sound and metrical forms which enabled the growing community of believers to assimilate and memorise the words. Even to this day millions of Muslims continue to commit the entire Qur'an to memory. Listening to Qur'an recitation is a popular art form, one in which the entire audience would be aware of any mistake that disturbs the sound structure as much as it would the meaning of what is being recited.

The years after the death of the prophet Muhammad saw a rapid expansion of the Muslim community far beyond the confines of Arabia. Where Muslims went they took the Qur'an with them, both in oral and written form. But it became clear that textual variations were beginning to appear in different parts of what was becoming the Muslim world. Othman, a companion of Muhammad and his third successor as leader of the Muslim community established a committee charged with assembling an authoritative text of the Qur'an, to be written down exactly as the prophet had recited it. This committee included people who had learned the recitation of Qur'an from the prophet as well as the scribes who had compiled written texts under his guidance, and they consulted with many more of those still living who had heard the prophet and committed the Qur'an to memory. The product of the committee's work is the text of the Qur'an known to all Muslims today.

The prophet received his first revelations when he was in Mecca, where he stayed for another 13 years. The surahs revealed during this period are known as Meccan surahs. When life in Mecca became unbearable, the prophet migrated to Medina, where he stayed till his death, some 10 years later. The surahs revealed in Medina are known, naturally, as Medinan surahs. There are 85 Meccan and 29 Medinan surahs (see table).

However, the non-linear structure of the Qur'an is such that many surahs contain passages from both periods. The longer Medinan surahs are found at the beginning of the Qur'an. A surah is said to be Meccan if its early verses were revealed in Mecca even if it contains many verses revealed in Medina, and vice versa.

Meccan surahs tend to be shorter. They are concerned with inner substance of faith, worship and spiritual pursuits; and deal with such subjects as attributes of God, the nature of monotheism, accountability and judgment in the hereafter, issues of justice, human virtues and the importance of good conduct.

During his time in Medina, the prophet was busy establishing a community with the necessary social order and the basic instruments of governance. So Medinan surahs tend to deal with issues of communal law (marriage, divorce and inheritance), relationship between different communities (particularly Jews and Christian) and dealing with adversaries.

So the distinction between the Meccan and Medinan surahs is a journey from "why", the ultimate nature of faith and worship, to the "how", the translation of faith into a form of living as a practice of religion. The arrangement of the Qur'an with the Medinan surahs coming first, puts this journey the other way round, moving from how to why.

While I learn a great deal from the historical and contextual approach, for me, it does not necessarily clarify the issues of nature and style. I find it much more informative to go back to what the Qur'an says of itself.

The Qur'an says it is a guidance, a teaching. Its structure then unfolds as a series of lessons. This makes sense on a number of levels. Episodic lessons are much easier to assimilate, especially for its initial audience in a largely illiterate community, who would be helped by the sound and metrical properties of the language in which the Qur'an is expressed. But over time the lessons became more complex, with additional ideas being introduced and inserted in already-known passages. And this puts me in mind of what happens during the course of one's school career. Whatever the subject, first you learn the basics but then in later years you return to particular topics and acquire new information and insight. Education is the process of gaining a deeper, more profound understanding. To me, that is what we are invited to find in the structure and arrangement of the Qur'an.

But the Qur'an is not addressed merely to the people of Mecca and Medina during the lifetime of Muhammad. In fact, it speaks to all humanity, and in particular to "people who think", even though many of its verses are directed specifically to "those who believe". But it admonishes those who believe blindly; and asks its readers, again and again, to observe, reflect, question. It devotes considerable space to delineating the attributes of God; but stresses throughout that knowledge and reason are as important and valid as faith itself in understanding God.

The Qur'an teaches through the use of a diversity of material. Apart from the prophet Muhammad and his community, it refers to stories from the lives of previous prophets, such as Musa (Moses), Ibrahim (Abraham) Nuh (Noah) and Lot as well as Isa (Jesus), familiar from the Torah and the Bible. It frequently refers to history and the rise and fall of empires. It refers to the creation of the universe and uses examples from the natural world. It employs parables, metaphors and allegories to explain both moral principles and things beyond direct human experience. And it concerns itself with the practicalities of how a society should reform and organise itself internally and in its relations with other people to advance in ethical behaviour and righteousness. But it does not treat these themes as one-off lessons. The Qur'an returns to these themes a number of times, on each occasion adding some new information or insight or offering a slightly different perspective to provide new food for thought and deeper understanding.

I find the complexity of structure and style of the Qur'an insistently points to necessary relationships, to the need to think of things not in separate compartments but as involved and integrated with each other. In contemporary terms, I think, the Qur'an invites us to take a multidimensional rather than a one-dimensional approach to all aspects of life. But equally, I never cease to be amazed at how easily and readily Muslims reduce this complexity to a simplistic list of dos and don'ts.

The Qur'an does not ask me to accept anything passively; rather it invites me to engage actively in a process of questioning and reasoning. It is the only way, I think, of understanding and interpreting the meaning and guidance the Qur'an has for our time, here and now.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/01/nature_and_style_of_the_quran.html

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 17:24
Reading and interpretation
The Qur'an is full of questions, but how far does it go in providing the answers?
January 11, 2008

Painting of a Mulla, leader of public worship. He holds a book and wears a dark slate-blue daftan with pink lining over a light blue robe. 1618, Istanbul, Turkey. Supplied by the British Museum


On one level, the Qur'an is an easy book to read. Most pious Muslims read it every day as a devotional exercise. But devotional reading, while a form of prayer, does not take us very far in understanding what we read. Non-Muslims read it in translation. Of course, a translation is not the Qur'an, it does not have the power of the original text; and no matter how good a translation it can never convey the true essence of the book.

Translations can also be used to subvert the meaning of the text - intentionally or unintentionally. A complex text, particularly one that is seen as eternal, can be read and interpreted in a number of different ways. But for me, the best way to read the Qur'an is argumentatively. That's what the text itself demands. The Qur'an is full of questions: "How can you worship something other than God?"; "How did this happen?"; "Have you considered ... ?"; "Have you heard ... ?"; "What are they asking about?" And it is jam-packed with debate - particularly in the longer surahs. Clearly, God loves a good argument. The question is whether these arguments are settled. When the Qur'an invites its readers to think and reflect does it go on to tell them all the answers? And if answers are left to the discretion of believers have they definitively settled matters of debate among themselves over the course of more than 1,400 years?

While the Qur'an poses questions, it does not, in my opinion, provide all the answers. It gives the principles, the moral and ethical framework of values, to guide one to discovering answers. Beyond question, not everything is settled and laid out in the Qur'an. It is up to the reader to wrestle with the text and find the answers. Yet, today there are Muslims who advocate, or allow themselves to be convinced by, a literal reading of the Qur'an and insist this literalism contains all the answers necessary to live in the 21st century. If this was true, there would be no reason for the emergence of the vast body of intellectual work devoted to the interpretation of the Qur'an.

So let us consider how the history of Muslim interpretation came into being. The prophet Muhammad was succeeded by four men known and accepted by all Muslims as the Rightly Guided Caliphs. Abu Bakr, Uthman, Umar and Ali had all learned the Qur'an directly from the prophet, had listened to him teaching, explaining and deciding matters for the community. And yet when they became leaders they found many questions on which they were unsure or under-informed on how to apply the Qur'an and hence what decision to take. It became their practice to call upon other companions who could report opinions or actions of the prophet they had personally witnessed. These reports could be either in oral or written form, and thus was born the tradition of gathering hadith and sunnah. Hadith is a reported saying of Prophet Muhammad, sunnah a reported deed or action, both are separate and distinct from the text of the Qur'an and both have been accepted from the outset as a secondary source for understanding and interpreting the Qur'an.

The other Qur'anic science which emerged from the outset of Muslim history was the dating and study of the circumstances in which each verse of the Qur'an was revealed. It was agreed that to understand the questions as well as the meaning of the Qur'an it was necessary to know as much as possible about the society, events, customs and habits of the life and times of the prophet Muhammad in Mecca and Medina. On the basis of this scholarship distinctions were to be made between the contextual, what was specific to the particular time and place of revelation, and the general principles of the Qur'an's message which were eternal, timeless and relevant in any place or circumstance. A set of procedures was established for reasoning by analogy from the specific to the general. Even then, differences of opinion on issues of interpretation were common.

One particular procedure that emerged for settling differences of opinion among scholars was consensus. Consensus, or ijma, is what the Qur'an commends as the best way to arrive at decisions. Now consensus is an agreement arrived at after debate among a diversity of opinions and by definition it is an act of interpretation arrived at by a community, whether all believers or a select group of learned scholars. To accept consensus does not necessarily preclude differences in emphasis and application. But relying too heavily on consensus of learned opinion can mean giving up the ongoing dynamic effort to reason with the meaning of the Qur'an. In which case, those who rely on received consensus of ancient scholars are effectively saying the timeless and eternal became fixed and unchanging many centuries ago, no matter what changes have happened since. It also means the interpretation based on the opinion of ordinary, though often gifted scholars, has a monopoly on understanding the Qur'an. I find such a position impossible to accept.

However, I take great comfort and pride from learning about how the great scholars, especially of the earliest phases of Muslim history, reasoned. It seems to me they took the spirit of inquiry commended by the Qur'an seriously and much of their methodology seems incredibly contemporary; no modern-day student would be embarrassed to use or advocate their ways of thinking and arguing. So let me highlight a few basic principles I feel are particularly important.

First, the guiding principle they accepted was that the Qur'an is an integrated text. Not only is it complete and applicable for all time, but it is internally consistent and the whole of the book must be considered to arrive at a sound understanding. Another way of saying this is that the message of the Qur'an is concerned to establish the right relationships between things to achieve the best possible end here and hereafter. So everything is interconnected and everything affects everything else. Therefore to take just one verse of the Qur'an without considering how all the other verses interact with it, affect it or what they imply about its meaning is a failure of rigorous reasoning. However, as an aid to understanding the Qur'an it became convention for scholars to compile commentaries, known as tafsir, that go through the Qur'an verse by verse bringing together all that is known and relevant to interpreting the individual verse. Classical commentators such as Tabari, who in the ninth century produced one of the earliest commentaries, and Fakhruddin Razi, who flourished during the 12th century, start from the first verse and continue all the way to the last, explaining the meaning and significance of each. They relied largely on one part of the Qur'an to explain another part, and, where necessary, sought explanations from the life of the prophet Muhammad. Modern commentators such as Syed Qutb, the ideological patron of the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt, and Abul Ala Mawdudi, the founder of Jamaat-e-Islami of Pakistan, have tended to follow the traditional encyclopaedic verse-by-verse method while infusing their commentaries with revolutionary fervour.

However, over time this atomistic approach to the Qur'an has become problematic. It leads inevitably to Muslims brandishing just one verse of the Qur'an as if it is an answer to everything in and of itself. It just goes to show that however sophisticated Muslim scholarship has been, Muslims have not necessarily been intelligent in how they understand and use this legacy.

Second - and in my opinion this is one of the most important principles - the early scholars accepted local custom in widely differing parts of the Muslim world as a valid source of interpretation and application of Qur'anic principles. This point is almost totally neglected nowadays. It means that all human activity and ideas need to be tested against the coherent standard of Qur'anic principle. When this is done, many customs, many forms of organisation of human activity and many ways of thinking and acting, can fulfil or comply with Qur'anic principles. In other words not only is there more than one way to be a good Muslim but ultimately Islam is not a brand name that belongs exclusively to Muslims. It is equally possible for Muslims to behave in an un-Islamic way as it is for non-Muslims to behave Islamicly!

For me, this is the most profound and dynamic of all outlooks with which to approach and interpret the Qur'an. It calls for a rational, considered thought and interrogation, not of appearances but of the deeper implications and meaning of how human beings think and act within and between all the diversity of our culture, history, language and beliefs. It requires just as intense a scrutiny of the traditions and customs we inherit as Muslim history and norms as of those of non-Muslim society. Most of all it places all humanity in an interconnected world in the same position, just as the Qur'an itself argues. And therefore it ought to focus our attention on the challenge the Qur'an places before a diverse world: to find ways to co-operate and work together to make the world a better place, more just and equitable for everyone, since everyone and everything is equally part of God's creation and all of us will be judged on how we have lived our lives.

Just as Muslims in history found there was no one and only right way to be Muslim and gave birth to the great diversity of the Muslim world, so we today have to relearn that the meaning of the Qur'an does not remain static throughout time, place and circumstance. The inspiration and interpretations we draw from the Qur'an constantly returns us to the divine source to think and reflect and be prepared to do things differently, to change and be changed to remain consistent to the meaning of the message.

I believe the Qur'an has to be reinterpreted from epoch to epoch, generation to generation. The inevitable corollary of this reading is that it is legitimate for Muslims to reject the interpretations of earlier times. All generations stand in the same interpretive relationship to the Qur'an. Our task is to make the best sense we can of its meaning for our time and circumstance and do as much as we are able and capable of to live up to the highest standards of moral and ethical behaviour for the benefit of all humanity and the world we share. In these blogs, I will begin by following in the footsteps of tradition. But I will not offer a verse-by-verse commentary. Rather, I will discuss collections of verses from the first surah, al-Fatiha (The Opening), and the second surah, al-Baqara (The Cow), which is the longest surah of the Qur'an. Then, taking my cue from the Pakistani thinker the late Fazlur Rahman, I will explore some of the major themes and concepts of the Qur'an, such as justice and accountability. After that, I will move on to contemporary issues such as violence and terror, environment and evolution, and sex and the veil.

We will not cover every single verse of the Qur'an. But we will cover most of the Qur'an. If I leave out something of particular concern to you, do let me know.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/01_introduction/blog_3_reading_and_interpretat/

knuppeltje
27-03-08, 17:39
Dit zijn mijn woorden, niet die van de Koran. Hoezo dan? Overweldigen mijn woorden jou misschien net als de Koran bij gelovigen doet?

Hou je voor de rest uit dit topic als je niks inhoudelijks weet in te brengen.

Maar denk je niet dat dit meer iets is voor islam en meer dan, je kunt de koran nu niet bepaald het nieuws van de dag vinden. :vreemd:

naam
27-03-08, 17:49
Reading and interpretation
The Qur'an is full of questions, but how far does it go in providing the answers?
I believe the Qur'an has to be reinterpreted from epoch to epoch, generation to generation. The inevitable corollary of this reading is that it is legitimate for Muslims to reject the interpretations of earlier times. All generations stand in the same interpretive relationship to the Qur'an. Our task is to make the best sense we can of its meaning for our time and circumstance and do as much as we are able and capable of to live up to the highest standards of moral and ethical behaviour for the benefit of all humanity and the world we share. In these blogs, I will begin by following in the footsteps of tradition. But I will not offer a verse-by-verse commentary. Rather, I will discuss collections of verses from the first surah, al-Fatiha (The Opening), and the second surah, al-Baqara (The Cow), which is the longest surah of the Qur'an. Then, taking my cue from the Pakistani thinker the late Fazlur Rahman, I will explore some of the major themes and concepts of the Qur'an, such as justice and accountability. After that, I will move on to contemporary issues such as violence and terror, environment and evolution, and sex and the veil.

We will not cover every single verse of the Qur'an. But we will cover most of the Qur'an. If I leave out something of particular concern to you, do let me know.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/category/01_introduction/blog_3_reading_and_interpretat/

Ik dacht dat alles uit de koran maar op een manier geinterpreteerd kon worden en dat de geleerden hebben uitgelegd hoe?

Stukje Van Tanger 1973



Je mag natuurlijk niet naar eigen inzichten de Koran interpreteren.

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 17:50
Maar denk je niet dat dit meer iets is voor islam en meer dan, je kunt de koran nu niet bepaald het nieuws van de dag vinden. :vreemd:
Ik had ook liever gewild van niet, maar feit is dat dit al jaren wel het nieuws van de dag is. Al die discussies als Hans Jansen weer eens een leugen de wereld in brengt zijn hier steevast wel nieuws, maar als een islamitische intellectueel zijn visie uitgebreid, in een project dat een jaar duurt en waar iedereen zijn vragen en opmerkingen kwijt kan, is het geen nieuws. Dat verklaart een hoop over waar men zich zo graag op wil focussen; de leugens over de Islam en de Koran als dé waarheid beschouwen.

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 17:51
Ik dacht dat alles uit de koran maar op een manier geinterpreteerd kon worden en dat de geleerden hebben uitgelegd hoe?

Stukje Van Tanger 1973
Geleerden zijn bij uitstek een afspiegeling van de generaties. Zelfs al zou je willen interpreteren (wat de geleerden doen) dan moet je wel de nodige kennis bezitten en dat hebben de meesten niet. Dus wat Tanger zegt kán in essentie wel juist zijn. Sardar formuleert het in elk geval anders.

Zie ook de discussie op de site naar aanleding van de opmerkingen van Abdullah al-Hasan die Sardar hetzelfde verwijt van niet mogen interpreteren maakt:



Abdullah al-Hasan v Ziauddin Sardar
Challenged by a reader on his credentials for blogging the Qur'an, Ziauddin Sardar makes his case
February 02, 2008

The following is an exchange between Zia and a reader about the credentials for blogging the Qur'an.

Abdullah al-Hasan to Ziauddin Sardar:

I have been following your efforts in discovering the meanings of verses and words of the Qur'an. A wonderful and much-needed venture which promises immense reward and blessings from God if undertaken within the set principles that Islam has prescribed. However, I am deeply concerned regarding your qualifications or credentials. I am not fully acquainted with your educational background but - correct me if I am wrong - you have no formal traditional scholarly education in Islam. As you are very much aware, there are certain requirements that a person must attain before indulging in interpretation of the Qur'an.

Being aware - as you are - of the requisite qualifications, why undertake this mammoth task ill-equipped?

Lees verder: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/02/abdullah_alhasan_v_ziauddin_sa.html

naam
27-03-08, 18:03
Geleerden zijn bij uitstek een afspiegeling van de generaties. Zelfs al zou je willen interpreteren (wat de geleerden doen) dan moet je wel de nodige kennis bezitten en dat hebben de meesten niet. Dus wat Tanger zegt kán in essentie wel juist zijn. Sardar formuleert het in elk geval anders.

Zie ook de discussie op de site naar aanleding van de opmerkingen van Abdullah al-Hasan die Sardar hetzelfde verwijt van niet mogen interpreteren maakt:



Abdullah al-Hasan v Ziauddin Sardar
Challenged by a reader on his credentials for blogging the Qur'an, Ziauddin Sardar makes his case
February 02, 2008

The following is an exchange between Zia and a reader about the credentials for blogging the Qur'an.

Abdullah al-Hasan to Ziauddin Sardar:

I have been following your efforts in discovering the meanings of verses and words of the Qur'an. A wonderful and much-needed venture which promises immense reward and blessings from God if undertaken within the set principles that Islam has prescribed. However, I am deeply concerned regarding your qualifications or credentials. I am not fully acquainted with your educational background but - correct me if I am wrong - you have no formal traditional scholarly education in Islam. As you are very much aware, there are certain requirements that a person must attain before indulging in interpretation of the Qur'an.

Being aware - as you are - of the requisite qualifications, why undertake this mammoth task ill-equipped?

Lees verder: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/quran/2008/02/abdullah_alhasan_v_ziauddin_sa.html


Wat vind je zelf?

knuppeltje
27-03-08, 18:11
[QUOTE]Ik had ook liever gewild van niet, maar feit is dat dit al jaren wel het nieuws van de dag is. Al die discussies als Hans Jansen weer eens een leugen de wereld in brengt zijn hier steevast wel nieuws

Maar die zogenaamde leugens kunnen dan ook hier steevast aan de kaak gesteld worden toch.


maar als een islamitische intellectueel zijn visie uitgebreid, in een project dat een jaar duurt en waar iedereen zijn vragen en opmerkingen kwijt kan, is het geen nieuws. Dat verklaar een hoop over waar men zich zo graag op wil focussen; de leugens over de Islam en de Koran als dé waarheid beschouwen.

IK heb er niets op tegen, maar afgezien dat ik vind dat een zo'n theologisch disput wat blijkbaar dus zo lang gaat duren- meer thuishoort bij islam en meer, vind ik het al raar om dat hier te doen door al die van het net geplukte Engelse lappen tekst.
Wie denk je daar allemaal mee te bereiken hier?
Kan nooit bevordelijk voor je missie zijn.

knuppeltje
27-03-08, 18:14
Geleerden zijn bij uitstek een afspiegeling van de generaties. Zelfs al zou je willen interpreteren (wat de geleerden doen) dan moet je wel de nodige kennis bezitten en dat hebben de meesten niet.

Bedoel je daar de geleerden mee?

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 18:15
Wie denk je daar allemaal mee te bereiken hier?
Kan nooit bevordelijk voor je missie zijn.
Ik heb geen missie, maar ik start gewoon een nieuwe discussie. Als je er wat van wilt leren of opmerkingen op de inhoud hebt, graag. Het ter discussie stellen van mijn motivatie is denk ik hetgeen we moeten vermijden, want niet bervorderlijk voor de discussie.

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 18:16
Bedoel je daar de geleerden mee?
Nee de meeste moslims.

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 18:35
Wat vind je zelf?
Ik hecht zelf meer waarde aan een erkende Islam-geleerde, een 'alim'. De ontzettend grote hoeveelheid aan kennis die de Islam omvat, bibliotheken vol, maakt het voor mij, een alledaags gelovige, moeilijk om zelf tot het juiste oordeel te komen. Dat neemt niet weg dat ik het heel constructief vind als iemand anders met de nodige kennis het zelf doet. Uiteindelijk is het een kwestie van de juiste gereedschappen hebben om tot het juiste islamitische oordeel te komen, en voor dat oordeel is ieder van ons zelf verwantwoordelijk. Misschien dat Sardar (professor in verschillende takken van wetenschap) zelf in staat is om tot dat oordeel te komen en heeft hij de juiste gereedschappen verworven; hij geeft in zijn veelbelovend blog in ieder geval blijk van veel eruditie en waarachtigheid om dat wel aan te mogen nemen. Voor iemand die niet-gelovig is zou dit een uitstekende mogelijkheid zijn om kennis te nemen over hoe de Koran in handen van een moslim gelezen wordt, zonder de theologische haarkloverij.

knuppeltje
27-03-08, 18:40
[QUOTE]Ik heb geen missie,

Dat geloof je zelf niet, maar sukses ermee.

Bofko
27-03-08, 19:34
Ik heb 'Het paradijs wanhopig gezocht' van Ziaudin Sardar gelezen en vond het een goed boek. Ik beschouw hem als intellectueel, kritisch en modern. Ik hoop dat ie veel succes heeft met dit project.

VerbalSmaeel
27-03-08, 20:22
Ik heb 'Het paradijs wanhopig gezocht' van Ziaudin Sardar gelezen en vond het een goed boek. Ik beschouw hem als intellectueel, kritisch en modern. Ik hoop dat ie veel succes heeft met dit project.
Het boek zelf heb ik niet gelezen, maar ik ben wel op de hoogte van de inhoud. Ik ben het niet altijd met hem eens, maar hij is een grote aanwinst als intellectueel voor moslims en niet-moslims in Europa. Ik lees zijn essays en artikelen in The New Statesman altijd met graagte.

H.P.Pas
27-03-08, 21:38
Sterk project!

Eens. Ik heb een beetje gebladerd, ik ga dit volgen.
Bedankt voor de tip.