Bekijk Volledige Versie : Can what happened in Norway take place in Holland ?
Harts intelligentie
16-08-11, 19:24
Identity Debate Reaches Netherlands .
Source : OnIslam & Newspapers, August 14, 2011
IslamiCity.com (http://www.islamicity.com/m/news_frame.asp?Frame=1&referenceID=59513)
.Identity Debate Reaches Netherlands .
Many immigrants said they felt betrayed by the new rightist rhetoric adopted by social parties to win over voters from far-right parties CAIRO – Haunted by worries of Norway-similar attacks in their country, Dutch people are debating the rising tide of far-right rhetoric against Islam and immigration amid a deteriorating role of traditional parties and growing fears of fascism.
“Norway makes it clear how much Dutch society is living on the edge of its nerves,” Kathleen Ferrier, a Christian Democrat legislator, told The New York Times on Sunday, August 14.
“[Geert] Wilders says hateful things and no one objects," said the lawmaker, who had objected to her party joining a government supported by far-right MP Geert Wilders.
“We have freedom of speech, but you also have to be responsible for the effect of your words.”
In an assault by a Christian fanatic, at least 76 people were killed in twin attacks on a government building and a youth training camp in Oslo on July 22.
The attacker, Anders Behring Breivik, said his assault was a self-styled mission to save European "Christendom” from Islam.
Worried of hostile language against Muslims and immigrants by far-rightists as Wilders, analysts warn of similar attacks in the Netherlands.
“Wilders was a key source of inspiration for Breivik,” said Rob Riemen, director of the Nexus Institute, a research organization.
“But the Dutch don’t want to acknowledge that we see fascism in the face of Wilders. To call him a populist is to disguise what is really going on.”
Wilders, the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, is notorious for anti-Islam rhetoric.
He has called for banning the Noble Qur’an, describing the Muslim holy book as “fascist”.
In 2008, the far-right MP released a 15-minute documentary accusing the Qur'an of inciting violence.
Ahead of last year’s general elections, Wilders’ anti-immigrant party campaigned to "stop the Islamization of the Netherlands", and the building of new mosques.
His party’s anti-Islam campaigns, however, have helped it make its biggest gains since Wilders has founded it in 2006.
“And history teaches us that fascism pops up when social democracy loses its compass,” Rieman said.
Double Fear
Though many Dutch recoil Wilder’s anti-Islam language, some acknowledged that they were touched by it.
“Sometimes I’m afraid of Islam,” Maria Kuhlman, a resident in Slotervaart, told The New York Times.
“They’re taking over the neighborhood and they’re very strong. I don’t love Wilders.He’s a pig, but he says what many people think.”
Yet, the fear was not only on the part of Dutch people.
Many immigrants say they felt betrayed by the new rightist rhetoric adopted by social parties to win over voters from far-right parties.
“The fear is on both sides,” Ahmed Marcouch, 42, son of an illiterate Moroccan immigrant and now a Labor member of Parliament, said.
Coming from different cultures and countries, most Muslim immigrants tried to cling to traditional values inside the mosque.
“They didn’t speak Dutch, they didn’t know Holland, and they saw the sexual revolution, feminism and youth anarchism as a provocation, as part of a decadent society,” Marcouch said
On the other hand, the government did not understand the importance of religious identity for its immigrants.
“They didn’t understand the importance of religious identity among the immigrants,” he said.
Moreover, many critics say that citizenship rights are never fully granted to immigrants, unlike the situation in United States.
“But in Europe it’s never quite established, no matter how long you’ve been here,” Henk Overbeek, a political scientist at VU University, said.
“Here it’s still, ‘When did you get here, and when are you going back?’ ”
Marcouch, the Labor MP, however, believes that the solution lies on the hands of Muslim immigrants, whose image have changed after the Arab Spring.
“Muslims need to reach out to the others and say, ‘Freedom is our common value, and we must all fight for it and defend it,’ ” he said.
Harts intelligentie
16-08-11, 19:25
That can easily take place in Holland if that coward disgusting fascist pig wilders is not stopped soon enough
“Norway makes it clear how much Dutch society is living on the edge of its nerves,” Kathleen Ferrier, a Christian Democrat legislator, told The New York Times on Sunday, August 14.
“[Geert] Wilders says hateful things and no one objects," said the lawmaker, who had objected to her party joining a government supported by far-right MP Geert Wilders.
“We have freedom of speech, but you also have to be responsible for the effect of your words.”
Novum) - PVV-leider Geert Wilders is te ver gegaan door moskeeën te
omschrijven als haatpaleizen. Dat zei premier Mark Rutte (VVD) vrijdag tijdens
zijn persconferentie na de ministerraad. "Het is een verschrikkelijke uitspraak."
Bron (http://www.nieuws.nl/655322)
Harts intelligentie
16-08-11, 19:44
Novum) - PVV-leider Geert Wilders is te ver gegaan door moskeeën te
omschrijven als haatpaleizen. Dat zei premier Mark Rutte (VVD) vrijdag tijdens
zijn persconferentie na de ministerraad. "Het is een verschrikkelijke uitspraak."
Bron (http://www.nieuws.nl/655322)
that fascist pig must be stopped before it is too late indeed
P.S.:
deze topic & Thomas jefferson"Quran topic behoren op het nieuws van de dag geplaatst te worden, maar de 1 of ander debiel moderator had ze verplaatst naar ...islam & meer
gek is dat
Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an
Source : Aramco world , August 9, 2011
IslamiCity.com - Thomas Jefferson's Qur'an (http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=AW1108-4795)
that fascist pig must be stopped before it is too late indeed
Haatpaleizen is Wilders's reactie op Breivink's massamoord omdat hij voor zichzelf blijft ontkennen dat er een verband is tussen zijn haatzaaien en wat er is gebeurd.
Hij leeft allang niet meer in de werkelijkheid.
P.S.:
deze topic & Thomas jefferson"Quran topic behoren op het nieuws van de dag geplaatst te worden, maar de 1 of ander debiel moderator had ze verplaatst naar ...islam & meer
gek is dat
In het artikel staat:
Jefferson's system for organizing his library has often been described as a "blueprint of his own mind."
Opzich interessant om te vergelijken met Mulla Sadra's Library. Maar dat is way too much voor bijna iedereen in Het Nieuws Van De Dag.
Harts intelligentie
16-08-11, 20:10
talk to u later Box , gotta go, thanks indeed
That can easily take place in Holland if that coward disgusting fascist pig wilders is not stopped soon enough
Het kan hier ook gemakkelijk gebeuren, want ook hier hebben de mensen gehoord van de aanslagen door moslimextremisten.
Harts intelligentie
16-08-11, 22:45
Het kan hier ook gemakkelijk gebeuren, want ook hier hebben de mensen gehoord van de aanslagen door moslimextremisten.
haha
je bent een tragi-hilarisch-komisch hopeloos idioot denial freak = een bron van vermak net als Don Quichotte trouwens met zijn imaginaire vijanden & wind molens ;
Nou, je kan blijven ontkenen dat extreem-rechts is gevaarlijk bezig tot je wakker geschud zou worden door een soortgelijk aanslag in NL zoals datgene die vond plaats in Noorwegen , dus
Afwachten maar dus , only time will tell then
Harts intelligentie
16-08-11, 22:59
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4799131]Haatpaleizen is Wilders's reactie op Breivink's massamoord omdat hij voor zichzelf blijft ontkennen dat er een verband is tussen zijn haatzaaien en wat er is gebeurd.
Hij leeft allang niet meer in de werkelijkheid.
That fascist pig will be confronted with the criminal effects of his fascist words , sooner or later
Amazing how most intelligent Ducth people do not seem to have learned anything whatsoever from that horrific criminal act in Noorway perpetrated by a populist rightist christian fundamentalist lunatic
In het artikel staat:
Jefferson's system for organizing his library has often been described as a "blueprint of his own mind."
Opzich interessant om te vergelijken met Mulla Sadra's Library. Maar dat is way too much voor bijna iedereen in Het Nieuws Van De Dag.
staat veel meer dan dat in dat artikel
I am more interested in the potential influence of the Qur'an as a holy "law book " in relation to Jefferson's thought , especially in regard to the freedom of belief act introduced by Jefferson ...
haha
je bent een tragi-hilarisch-komisch hopeloos idioot denial freak = een bron van vermak net als Don Quichotte trouwens met zijn imaginaire vijanden & wind molens ;
Nou, je kan blijven ontkenen dat extreem-rechts is gevaarlijk bezig tot je wakker geschud zou worden door een soortgelijk aanslag in NL zoals datgene die vond plaats in Noorwegen , dus
Afwachten maar dus , only time will tell then
Je snapt toch wel dat de aanslagen van de Breiviks veroorzaakt worden door de Attaas? Zie jij dat niet? Daar geloof ik niets van. Ik geloof wel dat het niet past in je vooringenomen wereldbeeld. Wie voorwendt dat niet in te zien kan echt niet serieus genomen worden.
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 01:44
Je snapt toch wel dat de aanslagen van de Breiviks veroorzaakt worden door de Attaas? Zie jij dat niet? Daar geloof ik niets van. Ik geloof wel dat het niet past in je vooringenomen wereldbeeld. Wie voorwendt dat niet in te zien kan echt niet serieus genomen worden.
Infamous indecent disgusting criminal ...notorious imperialistic blaming the victim morality, psychology, mentality , 'logics " :
....& de concentratie kampen , gas kamers , deportaties ..onder de nazis werden veroorzaakt door de joden , homos, gypsies ...
nazisme werd veroorzaakt door het Europese verzet ...
zionazisme werd veroorzaakt door het palestijnse verzet ...
............
wat is dit voor debiel logica ?
Ga spelen, achterlijk jochie
u are not even funny or ironic , let alone that u would be able to make any sense
read this , dummy :
http://www.maroc.nl/forums/nieuws-de-dag/335188-blaming-muslims-christian-terrorism-norway-robert-c-koehler.html
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 01:56
http://www.maroc.nl/forums/nieuws-de-dag/336220-i-worry-more-about-anders-breiviks-than-mohammed-attas.html
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 03:13
Amazing western hypocrit unnuanced absolute good guys /bad guys non-sense :
criminalizing the victim & victimizing the criminal
Denial is indeed a serious obstacle to any human understandig , peace , progress ...
& there can be no peace without justice
Infamous indecent disgusting criminal ...notorious imperialistic blaming the victim morality, psychology, mentality , 'logics " :
....& de concentratie kampen , gas kamers , deportaties ..onder de nazis werden veroorzaakt door de joden , homos, gypsies ...
nazisme werd veroorzaakt door het Europese verzet ...
zionazisme werd veroorzaakt door het palestijnse verzet ...
............
wat is dit voor debiel logica ?
Ga spelen, achterlijk jochie
u are not even funny or ironic , let alone that u would be able to make any sense
read this , dummy :
http://www.maroc.nl/forums/nieuws-de-dag/335188-blaming-muslims-christian-terrorism-norway-robert-c-koehler.html
Het is niet zo moeilijk: Mohammed Atta kwam eerst en daarna pas Breivik. Eerst was er het onaangepaste, criminele gedrag van veel Marokkaanse jongeren in Nederland, en daarna kwam Wilders pas.
Het is een feit dat we de afgelopen halve eeuw eerst de aanslagen door moslimextremisten hebben gezien. De opkomst van het rechts-extremisme en het extreem-rechtse gedachtengoed in veel landen is een gevolg daarvan. De oude Nederlandse uitdrukking: wie wind zaait, zal storm oogsten doet nog steeds opgeld.
Max Stirner
17-08-11, 09:27
[SIZE="4"][B][B][B]Identity Debate
“They didn’t speak Dutch, they didn’t know Holland, and they saw the sexual revolution, feminism and youth anarchism as a provocation, as part of a decadent society,” Marcouch said
On the other hand, the government did not understand the importance of religious identity for its immigrants.
“They didn’t understand the importance of religious identity among the immigrants,” he said.
.
Hele foute gedachte van Marcouch
Religie heeft helemaal geen invloed op mensen, hun denk- en handelswijze staat daar volledig los van ... en e.e.a. kan dus ook nooit de oorzaak zijn van eventuele problemen / spanningen. Punt.
:student:
Het kan hier ook gemakkelijk gebeuren, want ook hier hebben de mensen gehoord van de aanslagen door moslimextremisten.
Het is niet zo moeilijk: Mohammed Atta kwam eerst en daarna pas Breivik. Eerst was er het onaangepaste, criminele gedrag van veel Marokkaanse jongeren in Nederland, en daarna kwam Wilders pas.
Het is een feit dat we de afgelopen halve eeuw eerst de aanslagen door moslimextremisten hebben gezien. De opkomst van het rechts-extremisme en het extreem-rechtse gedachtengoed in veel landen is een gevolg daarvan. De oude Nederlandse uitdrukking: wie wind zaait, zal storm oogsten doet nog steeds opgeld.
Hele foute gedachte van Marcouch
Religie heeft helemaal geen invloed op mensen, hun denk- en handelswijze staat daar volledig los van ... en e.e.a. kan dus ook nooit de oorzaak zijn van eventuele problemen / spanningen. Punt.
:student:
De beste trol is een gebande trol!!
De beste trol is een gebande trol!!
Ja, voor iemand als jij, die niet in staat is zijn standpunt op een heldere en duidelijke manier te verwoorden, is het wel handig dat opponenten die dat wel kunnen geband worden.
Max Stirner
17-08-11, 13:02
De beste trol is een gebande trol!!
Dictatoriale despoot zonder volk ....
:p
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 15:01
Hele foute gedachte van Marcouch
Religie heeft helemaal geen invloed op mensen, hun denk- en handelswijze staat daar volledig los van ... en e.e.a. kan dus ook nooit de oorzaak zijn van eventuele problemen / spanningen. Punt.
:student:
Marcouch zegt meestaal maar wat , maar goed :
religie is een manier van leven , een levensbeschouwing ...............met haar eigen paradigmas metafysica ethiek epistemologie ....net als alle ander levensbeschouwingnen
alle eerder religies waren culturen geworden, behalve islam die geen cultuur is , ondanks al die moslim culturen in de wereld
Weet , onwetende , dat levensbeschouwingnen, metafysica , epistemologie, mraal ethiek ...zijn een kwestie van maatschappij cultuur ecologie ....
levensbeschouwingnen die onze denken & dus gedrag medebepalen dus , min of meer , tot op zeker hoogte althans
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 15:06
De beste trol is een gebande trol!!
haha
Precies ;
Slinger denkt dat ie een grappige slimmerik zou zijn = self-refuting self-defeating criminal dummy in fact , justifying the massacres of innocent people in Norway & elsewhere by blaming that on muslims even ......stupid non-sense
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 15:51
[QUOTE=Slinger;4799792]Het is niet zo moeilijk: Mohammed Atta kwam eerst en daarna pas Breivik.
haha
wat een clown, zeg
ongeloofelijk dat zulke idioten op deze wereld zouden bestaan
losers met een uitkering haha notabene , die hebben niets te bieden als eigen prestaties ook nog ...maar goed ;
westerse imperialisme , onderdrukking , ,,,,in relatie tot moslims kwam eerst , westerse onvoorwaardelijk steun aan israel kwam eerst ....christelijke kruistochtten kwamen eerst ...christelijk & later westerse Eurocentrisch seculaire fundamentalisme facisme imperialisme nazisme, racisme ....xenofobie ... kwamen eerst ...(kip-ei onzin , wat een idioot, zeg , we kunnen zo door gaan door te reizen door de tijd tot ...Adam )
maar feit is : die vermeende moslim "terrorisme " was slechts een reactie op & produkt van westerse imperialisme , onderdrukking , onrecht, ongelijkheden ...........een reactie op & produkt van westerse & israeli oorlogsmisdaden, misdaden tegen de mensheid, genocides .............een reactie op & produkt van de westerse onvoorwaardelijk steun aan israel ...
de VS israel het westen willen niet eens meewerken aan een internationaal erkend definitie van terrorisme omdat de eersten DE staats terrroisten ooit zijn
als men de burgers van de vijand om zeep zou helpen , dan moet men niet gaan klagen als de eigen burgers op dezelfde manier worden behandeld
maar wat gebeurde in Noorwegen bijv was puur christelijk terrorisme ook wel want Noorwegen had geen burgers van enige land om zeep geholpen .....
secondo : The alleged crimes of the one do not justify the crimes of another but justice must be served
valt geen intelligent discussie met idioten zoals jezelf te voeren blijkt maar weer , simple minded dummy = self-refuting self-defeating freak = a pice of cake
let's do it just for the 'fun " of it in order to make u look more ridiculous stupid than ever :
u are not only justifying the massacre of innocent people in Norway at the hand of that christian fundamentalist murderer, u blame that on others too = on muslims haha , like blaming the jews for what happened to them under the nazis , like blaming the palestinians for what happened to them under the zionazis ....: blaming the victim morality
Eerst was er het onaangepaste, criminele gedrag van veel Marokkaanse jongeren in Nederland, en daarna kwam Wilders pas.
haha
eerst was er eens de westerse intrinsiek christelijk inquisitieachtig discriminerend antisemistisch uiterst intolerant dom onwetend crimineel bijgelovig achterlijk gedoe als DE bron van fundamentalisme fascisme antisemistisme nazisme racisme xenofoby ....daarna de materialistisch seculaire Eurocentrisch atheistisch fundamentalisme fascisme racisme xenofoby ....daarna westerse imperialisme wereldwijd ...................daarna werden marokkanen als de zwakste groep in de NLse laffe samenleving als doelwit gebruikt voor NLse projecties want NLers kunnen toch ook niet ander groepen als doelwil of scapegoat gebruiken want die ander groepen zitten min of meer sterk in hun schoenen , terwijl meest marokkanen in NL komen uit de rif bergen noorden van marokko = ongeletterd , onwetend ...als er ander marookanen in hun plaats waren zoals die van casablanca waar ik vandaan kom of van ander steden , zou geen enkel haar op je achterlijk dom hoofd kunnen durven de desbetreffend marokkanen te behandelen zoals deze laffe NLse samenleving aan het doen was/is ...............daarna kwam viezerik fortyuin profijt makend van de internationale ontwikkelingnen toen voor eigen machiavellistisch politiek gewin als rightist populist ....de rest van het verhaal ken je wel ...
Het is een feit dat we de afgelopen halve eeuw eerst de aanslagen door moslimextremisten hebben gezien.
haha
halve eeuw ? haha
De opkomst van het rechts-extremisme en het extreem-rechtse gedachtengoed in veel landen is een gevolg daarvan.
extreem-rechts bestond al langer , dummy = helemal terug te voeren naar het christendom & daarna naar secularisme atheisme materialisme ....
De oude Nederlandse uitdrukking: wie wind zaait, zal storm oogsten doet nog steeds opgeld.
Goes both ways
there is an Arabic saying that goes like this : Wa Albadi adlam = the first to start injustice is the most unjust ...........
[quote]
haha
halve eeuw ? haha
.
Ben je München vergeten, en de Achille Lauro, en Entebbe?
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 15:58
wat een stelletje mentally retarted freaks, zeg , met een eigen apart werkelijkheid = heeft niets te maken met de werkelijkheid
Ik zie hier dezelfde crimineel achterlijk moraal , logica , psychologie, mentaliteit gebruikt door de voormalige westerse imperialisme met betrekking tot ander volkeren, door westerse neo-imperialisme ....door Tutsis tegen hutus in Rwanda , door hindus tegen moslims in de vorige eeuw , door nazis tegen joden, door Bosnisch serviers tegen moslims .......................door zionazi isrel tegen het palestijnse verzet ;;;...
men leert nooit van de geschiedenis ,zie ik
the world will never be a better place with these kindda freaks on it
ongeloofelijk
[quote]
...als er ander marookanen in hun plaats waren zoals die van casablanca waar ik vandaan kom of van ander steden , zou geen enkel haar op je achterlijk dom hoofd kunnen durven de desbetreffend marokkanen te behandelen zoals deze laffe NLse samenleving aan het doen [/B]
Te oordelen naar je gedrag hier op het forum ben jij geen haar beter: grote bek en gewelddadige inslag.
Dergelijk gedrag geeft nu juist de Wildersen de wind in de zeilen.
haha
wat een clown, zeg
ongeloofelijk dat zulke idioten op deze wereld zouden bestaan
Je kunt ook stellen dat Atta een gevolg is van uitbuiting van de 3e wereld door o.a. Slinger.
Ergo: Slinger is medeschuldig aan Atta
Slinger stelt dat Breivink een reactie is op Atta.
Ergo: Slinger is medeschuldig aan Atta en Breivink.
Goes both ways
there is an Arabic saying that goes like this : Wa Albadi adlam = the first to start injustice is the most unjust ...........'Want wie wind zaait zal storm oogsten.' noemt Sllinger een oude Nederlandse uitdrukking.
Deze oude Nederlandse uitdrukking staat echter ook in de Tenach (Hosea 8:4).
wat een stelletje mentally retarted freaks, zeg , met een eigen apart werkelijkheid = heeft niets te maken met de werkelijkheid
Ik zie hier dezelfde crimineel achterlijk moraal , logica , psychologie, mentaliteit gebruikt door de voormalige westerse imperialisme met betrekking tot ander volkeren, door westerse neo-imperialisme ....door Tutsis tegen hutus in Rwanda , door hindus tegen moslims in de vorige eeuw , door nazis tegen joden, door Bosnisch serviers tegen moslims .......................door zionazi isrel tegen het palestijnse verzet ;;;...
men leert nooit van de geschiedenis ,zie ik
the world will never be a better place with these kindda freaks on it
ongeloofelijk
Mooie opsomming, die je daar geeft. Maar het ligt dus nooit aan het gedrag van moslims tegenover andere geloven, nooit aan wat soennieten, sjieten aandoen.
Kortom: het steken van de hand in eigen boezem is mensen als jij vreemd.
Je kunt ook stellen dat Atta een gevolg is van uitbuiting van de 3e wereld door o.a. Slinger.
Ergo: Slinger is medeschuldig aan Atta
Slinger stelt dat Breivink een reactie is op Atta.
Ergo: Slinger is medeschuldig aan Atta en Breivink.
'Want wie wind zaait zal storm oogsten.' noemt Sllinger een oude Nederlandse uitdrukking.
Deze oude Nederlandse uitdrukking staat echter ook in de Tenach (Hosea 8:4).
Klassieke wereldbeelden over kolonialisme doen het toch nog steeds erg goed bij degenen die zelf niet wensen of durven na te denken.
Bijbelse uitdrukkingen in de taal zijn niet vreemd, want het Nederlands is voor een groot deel gevormd door de Statenvertaling uit de 17e eeuw. Joods-christelijke beschaving, weet je nog?
staat veel meer dan dat in dat artikel
I am more interested in the potential influence of the Qur'an as a holy "law book " in relation to Jefferson's thought , especially in regard to the freedom of belief act introduced by Jefferson ...
Tijdens colleges van Prof. Maurits Berger kun je leren dat de deductie van natuurrecht tot positief recht een kopie is van de deductie van shari'ah tot fiqh is.
Dit onderwerp is zo een 3 jaar geleden op dit forum eigenlijk afgerond.
Maar als je meer informatie wilt, kan ik die wel voor je plaatsen in Islam en meer.
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 19:26
Ben je München vergeten, en de Achille Lauro, en Entebbe?
Those were legetimate responses to the zionazi crimes by the secular Fatah , dummy
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 19:28
Tijdens colleges van Prof. Maurits Berger kun je leren dat de deductie van natuurrecht tot positief recht een kopie is van de deductie van shari'ah tot fiqh is.
Dit onderwerp is zo een 3 jaar geleden op dit forum eigenlijk afgerond.
Maar als je meer informatie wilt, kan ik die wel voor je plaatsen in Islam en meer.
Graag meer info , dank u wel
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 19:28
Tijdens colleges van Prof. Maurits Berger kun je leren dat de deductie van natuurrecht tot positief recht een kopie is van de deductie van shari'ah tot fiqh is.
Dit onderwerp is zo een 3 jaar geleden op dit forum eigenlijk afgerond.
Maar als je meer informatie wilt, kan ik die wel voor je plaatsen in Islam en meer.
Graag meer info , dank u wel, stel ik inderdaad zeer op prijs , appreciate
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 19:40
[QUOTE=Slinger;4800385][quote=Harts intelligentie;4800359]
Te oordelen naar je gedrag hier op het forum ben jij geen haar beter: grote bek en gewelddadige inslag.
haha
Look who's talking :
Geweld maakt deel uit van de menselijk natuur, dummy
je wordt ook schulidg bevonden aan verbaal geweld hier, gescheld .... = an understatement , hypocriet moraal ridder
erger nog : u justify the massacre of innocent people in Norway
worse : u blame it on muslims , ironically paradoxically enough
Dergelijk gedrag geeft nu juist de Wildersen de wind in de zeilen.
fascists do not need reasons, they make them up
their own fascist ideologie are "reasons ' enough for them
I see the pvv as the Ducth version of the US christian KKK= lynching muslims /islam publically metaphorically while the US kkk used to lynch the blacks physically literally publically
That fascist pvv coward vulgar pig is alos responsible for hate messages , oral verbal violence , implicitly inciting violence against muslims
[/COLOR]
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 19:54
Je kunt ook stellen dat Atta een gevolg is van uitbuiting van de 3e wereld door o.a. Slinger.
Ergo: Slinger is medeschuldig aan Atta
Slinger stelt dat Breivink een reactie is op Atta.
Ergo: Slinger is medeschuldig aan Atta en Breivink.
'Want wie wind zaait zal storm oogsten.' noemt Sllinger een oude Nederlandse uitdrukking.
Deze oude Nederlandse uitdrukking staat echter ook in de Tenach (Hosea 8:4).
nou, ja , precies, zoiets
weet je ? ik sta versteld van hoe deze jongen wel "denkt " , zelfs als hij slim geinig probeert over te komen , dan zie ik niets interessants terug in zijn betoog dan dom populisme, onderbuikgevoelens , debiel logica, hypocriet moraal , blaming the victim morality, self-western-projections, christian projections, Eurocentric projections ................
he sounds like that Norwegian lunatic , he even fits into the psychological profile given by Slavoy Zizek haha
Ik zoek inspiraties, inzichten,uitdagingnen ...hier , maar die vind ik nauwelijks of zelden helaas
[quote][QUOTE=Slinger;4800385]
Geweld maakt deel uit van de menselijk natuur, dummy
Dat wil niet zeggen dat het uitoefenen van geweld tegen andere mensen ook geoorloofd is, slimmerik. Kijk maar naar de geboden van je eigen geloof. Ik neem tenminste aan dat die geweld tegen je medemens ten strengste verbieden.
Of toch niet?
[quote][QUOTE=Slinger;4800385]
I see the pvv as the Ducth version of the US christian KKK= lynching muslims /islam publically metaphorically while the US kkk used to lynch the blacks physically literally publically
That fascist pvv coward vulgar pig is alos responsible for hate messages , oral verbal violence , implicitly inciting violence against muslims
[/COLOR]
Het demoniseren van personen, wat je hier en in andere berichten doet, is ook een vorm van het uitoefenen van geweld.
Als iemand op grond van jouw haatberichten tot geweld overgaat ben jij verantwoordelijk.
[quote][QUOTE=Slinger;4800385]
fascists do not need reasons, they make them up
Dat klopt en dat is precies de reden dat jij je hier op dit forum zo gewelddadig uit.
Graag meer info , dank u wel
Graag meer info , dank u wel, stel ik inderdaad zeer op prijs , appreciate
O.k zal ik zeker doen.
Kan ff duren want ik moet oude posts terugvinden en de zoekmachine vertoont soms kuren.
haha
Look who's talking :
Geweld maakt deel uit van de menselijk natuur, dummy
je wordt ook schulidg bevonden aan verbaal geweld hier, gescheld .... = an understatement , hypocriet moraal ridder
erger nog : u justify the massacre of innocent people in Norway
worse : u blame it on muslims , ironically paradoxically enough
Wat Slinger nu probeert te doen is ' kijk eerst naar je- of jullie zelf'.
En dit is gebaseerd op de evangelische tekst: Huichelaar, verwijder eerst de balk uit je eigen oog, pas dan zul je scherp genoeg zien om de splinter uit het oog van je broeder of zuster te verwijderen.
Over deze evangelische tekst beweert Slinger dat deze 3 evangeliën staat: http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4627310-post235.html
Maar de tekst staat in 2 evangeliën.
Slavoj Žižek noemt deze doorzichtige tactiek van Slinger overigens politieke culturisatie. D.w.z. dat er bepalende sociaal-economische factoren zogenaamd niet bestaan.
fascists do not need reasons, they make them up
their own fascist ideologie are "reasons ' enough for them
I see the pvv as the Ducth version of the US christian KKK= lynching muslims /islam publically metaphorically while the US kkk used to lynch the blacks physically literally publically
That fascist pvv coward vulgar pig is alos responsible for hate messages , oral verbal violence , implicitly inciting violence against muslims
[/COLOR]Wat Slinger nu probeert te doen is Wilders jouw superego te laten worden (Freud!).
Bij iedere stap die je zet moet je je afvragen of Wilders dit goed vindt.
In de moderne psychoanalyse heet dit proces protractie (Lacan!) en is uiteraard een projectie van Slinger zelf.
Naast protractie als reductionistisch proces van jou is er ook substractie. En substractie houdt in dat jij als je niet aan Wilders onderwerpt jij uitgekleed wordt tot het clichébeeld van een bloeddorstige met een gigantisch kromzwaard zwaaiende Arabier (Slinger's christenzionistische oerangst!)
nou, ja , precies, zoiets
weet je ? ik sta versteld van hoe deze jongen wel "denkt " , zelfs als hij slim geinig probeert over te komen , dan zie ik niets interessants terug in zijn betoog dan dom populisme, onderbuikgevoelens , debiel logica, hypocriet moraal , blaming the victim morality, self-western-projections, christian projections, Eurocentric projections ................
he sounds like that Norwegian lunatic , he even fits into the psychological profile given by Slavoy Zizek haha
Ik zoek inspiraties, inzichten,uitdagingnen ...hier , maar die vind ik nauwelijks of zelden helaas
Psychoanalyse door amateurs hoeft voor mij echt niet. Het geeft ook een slechte naam aan degenen die uit roeping - om mensen te helpen - psychologie studeren.
Slavoj is een echter een pro. In filosofie is hij afgestudeerd aan de uni van Ljubljana gestudeerd. In psychologie is hij afgestudeerd aan de Sorbonne.
Ik heb een aantal pdf-versions van zijn boeken. Dus mocht je interesse hebben dan kan ik die online zetten.
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 21:58
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4800729]Wat Slinger nu probeert te doen is ' kijk eerst naar je- of jullie zelf'.
En dit is gebaseerd op de evangelische tekst: Huichelaar, verwijder eerst de balk uit je eigen oog, pas dan zul je scherp genoeg zien om de splinter uit het oog van je broeder of zuster te verwijderen.
Over deze evangelische tekst beweert Slinger dat deze 3 evangeliën staat: http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4627310-post235.html
Maar de tekst staat in 2 evangeliën.
Slavoj Žižek noemt deze doorzichtige tactiek van Slinger overigens politieke culturisatie. D.w.z. dat er bepalende sociaal-economische factoren zogenaamd niet bestaan.
Je geeft te veel eer aan deze idioot Slinger papagaai die niets anders doet dan de tactieken van extreem -rechts al dan niet bewust te kopieren = niet zijn eigen verdienste , al zijn dat lage doorzichtige tactieken ieder mens met een beetje gezond verstand kan zien
vandaar dat ik denk dat al die racisten, xenofoben, islam haters...........zijn geen echte slimme mensen , integendeel zelfs
moet je maar naar de KKK , white supremacists, neo-nazis, skin heads haha ...kijken = tragi-hilarisch
'kijk in de spiegel eerst ' & ander choc therapieen had Slinger van me overgenomen , neem ik aan, want ik vuurde ze op hem af op een regelmatig manier ...tevergeefs haha , want die idioot kent geen zelf-reflecties of heeft geen geweten , neem ik aan haha
Wat Slinger nu probeert te doen is Wilders jouw superego te laten worden (Freud!).
oude imperialistisc tactiek
weet ik, das de tactiek van dat fascist pig & co ,die werd overgenomen door Slinger & door veel anderen hier zoals De Blois , John 2 .....niets bijzonders , zo doorzichtig & dom als wat
werkt niet bij me althans = zou ik mezelf serieus in kwestie stellen als dat niet het geval was
Bij iedere stap die je zet moet je je afvragen of Wilders dit goed vindt.
ben ik er van bewust , zie boven , das geen typisch extreem-rechts tactiek, das een oude imperialistisch classiek emotioneel psychologisch chantage tactiek om auto-censuur & brain-wash te bewerstelligen bij de vijand
In de moderne psychoanalyse heet dit proces protractie (Lacan!) en is uiteraard een projectie van Slinger zelf.
Je stelt die idioot papagaai als de gelijke van Lacan ? haha
Naast protractie als reductionistisch proces van jou is er ook substractie. En substractie houdt in dat jij als je niet aan Wilders onderwerpt jij uitgekleed wordt tot het clichébeeld van een bloeddorstige met een gigantisch kromzwaard zwaaiende Arabier (Slinger's christenzionistische oerangst!)
haha , precies
vandaar dat ik zei dat ik zit meestaal te praten met de psyches & sub-consciousness of these idiots haha
westerse Orientalisten deden niet anders joh met betrekking tot islam/ moslims althans = oude imperialistisch tactieken = psychological warfare = fucking with peoples ' minds
Reminds me of those israeli psychological warfare tactics that were also used by the nazis, by the Americans ....................in israel's war against lebanon in 2006 against Hizbollah & against Hamas in Gaza in 2008-2009 = bombarding the whole erea so savagely & brutally continously that that would scare the shit out of people & make them rise against Hizbollah & hamas = did not work
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 22:33
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4800730]Psychoanalyse door amateurs hoeft voor mij echt niet. Het geeft ook een slechte naam aan degenen die uit roeping - om mensen te helpen - psychologie studeren.
daar heb je gelijk in , geen zin in psychologie van de koude grond
ik krijg regelmatig exemplaren van de praktisch Franse psychologie magazine thuis bijv , onder ander
psychologie behoort mensen te helpen inderdaad , behoort inzichten te verkrijgen in de menselijk psyche , ziel ...om er beter van te worden , om vooruitgang te bewerkstelligen in de zin van hoe meer we inzichten over de psyche & gedrag van de mens zouden weten , hoe meer zouden we in staat zijn beter levens te leiden ... , & hoe meer zouden we in staat zijn om psychologisch mentale aandoeningnen afwijkingnen te behandelen .....niet om mensen te manipuleren zoals bijv de marketing wel doet bijv , zoals de militairen, de politie , inlichtingnediensten & anderen doen
Psychoanalyse raakt uit de mode , materialistisch cognitieve psychologie lijkt wel in daarentegen
psychologie is meestaal een pseudo-wetenschap met veel wodoo gedoe zonder wetenschappelijk basis
psychologie is meestaal een kwestie van paradigmas levensbeschouwingnen , vandaar = geen echt wetenschap, al zou het hier & daar elementen van waarheid bevatten
zie al die Griekse & ander mythen waarop freud zijn psychologie had gebaseerd
zie Jung's zgn depth psychology die werd geinspireerd door buddhisme, taoisme ...
nou, ik vindt het wel onethisch om psychologisch tactieken toe te passen op mensen = geeft weer het feit dat men niet anders kan dan mensen belazeren om de eigen kijk op de dingen te laten gelden dat kan niet het geval zijn anders op een keurig gezond manier
ik probeer meestaal van die onschulidge choc therapieen op mensen toe te passen , alleen om ze tot denken aan te zetten , meer niet , ik gebruik geen discussie tactieken want dat is al per definitie self -refuting self-defeating
by the way :
moet je ook niet het feit ontkenen dat je probeert je eigen kijk op de dingen op een subtiel manier in mijn eigen hoofd haha te laten nestelen haha = geeft niet ,want dat doe je op een keurig ,niet op een kwaadaardig , manier
christene bijv zijn al lang bekend om om het feit dat ze bepaalde kwaadaardige tactieken gebruiken om mensen te laten bekeren tot het christendom zoals charity work ...zie de jesuieten in Z.Amerika, in japan , in China ...de laatsten werden uit zowel china als japan weggejaagd voor die redenen in de middeleeuwen haha
zie ook hoe de CIA , KGB ...psychologische methoden hadden ontwikkeld om hun eigen spionen te trainen & om gevangenen beter te kunnen ondervragen, desnoods via psychologisch & ander tortuur ...zie Guantanamo bay tactieken ...
Slavoj is een echter een pro. In filosofie is hij afgestudeerd aan de uni van Ljubljana gestudeerd. In psychologie is hij afgestudeerd aan de Sorbonne.
Ik heb een aantal pdf-versions van zijn boeken. Dus mocht je interesse hebben dan kan ik die online zetten.
ok, doe maar joh , thanks , appreciate , would be extremely interesting to lay my hands or eyes on what that guy has to say = sounds like quite a thinker = interesting = zou zijn denken door mijn eigen fiters kunnen gaan om er uit wat interessants moois waars te distilleren, want ik geloof er wel in dat elk cultuur, elk geloof, elk denkstroming, elk mensen ervaringnen ...wel elementen van waarheid bevatten , om maar te zwijgen over de wetenschap naturlijk
P.S.: moet ik eindelijk toegeven dat ik die komisch Slinger als een onschuldig troy's horse gebruik om mijn topics te laten functioneren want weinige mensen reageren eerst op mijn topics haha, vandaar
had ik deze "geheimpje " eingenlijk niet moeten verklappen met alle gevolgen van dien
Slinger lijkt me niet los te laten ook want hij volgt me op de voet in elk topic haha , the poor lad , waaroom ? das overduidelijk haha
Harts intelligentie
17-08-11, 23:52
[quote=Harts intelligentie;4800662][quote]
Dat wil niet zeggen dat het uitoefenen van geweld tegen andere mensen ook geoorloofd is, slimmerik. Kijk maar naar de geboden van je eigen geloof. Ik neem tenminste aan dat die geweld tegen je medemens ten strengste verbieden.
Of toch niet?
Get real
violence is necessary sometimes , ever heard of wars or just wars for example ?
so, u do think that the west ,israel,....should wage wars against their enemies & muslims not ? haha
Harts intelligentie
18-08-11, 00:01
[quote=Harts intelligentie;4800662][quote]
Het demoniseren van personen, wat je hier en in andere berichten doet, is ook een vorm van het uitoefenen van geweld.
Als iemand op grond van jouw haatberichten tot geweld overgaat ben jij verantwoordelijk.
haha
ik zeg gewoon waar het op staat = i condemn the fascism of the pvv
that fascist pig is the one that must be hold responsible for the murderous actions of that Norwegian & of probabely other potential lunatics, remember
i hope no rightist populist lunatic would do some horrific things in Holland like that Norwegian lunatic did in Norway , but it's very possible that that might happen, God forbids
if it does happen anyway , that fascist pvv pig would be the responsible number 1 for that as Hitler was the responsible number 1 for nazi crimes
Besides :
That pvv fascist pig a public figure, i am not , his influence is much bigger than mine
daar heb je gelijk in , geen zin in psychologie van de koude grond
ik krijg regelmatig exemplaren van de praktisch Franse psychologie magazine thuis bijv , onder ander Cool, daar wordt in Frankrijk goed over nagedacht. Een verdienste van Slavoj is dat hij Hegeliaanse terminologie heeft vertaald naar Lacaanse terminologie.
psychologie behoort mensen te helpen inderdaad , behoort inzichten te verkrijgen in de menselijk psyche , ziel ...om er beter van te worden , om vooruitgang te bewerkstelligen in de zin van hoe meer we inzichten over de psyche & gedrag van de mens zouden weten , hoe meer zouden we in staat zijn beter levens te leiden ... , & hoe meer zouden we in staat zijn om psychologisch mentale aandoeningnen afwijkingnen te behandelen .....niet om mensen te manipuleren zoals bijv de marketing wel doet bijv , zoals de militairen, de politie , inlichtingnediensten & anderen doen
Psychoanalyse raakt uit de mode , materialistisch cognitieve psychologie lijkt wel in daarentegen
psychologie is meestaal een pseudo-wetenschap met veel wodoo gedoe zonder wetenschappelijk basis
psychologie is meestaal een kwestie van paradigmas levensbeschouwingnen , vandaar = geen echt wetenschap, al zou het hier & daar elementen van waarheid bevatten
zie al die Griekse & ander mythen waarop freud zijn psychologie had gebaseerd
zie Jung's zgn depth psychology die werd geinspireerd door buddhisme, taoisme ...Freud is hooguit interessant in het perspectief van Karl Marx.
Jung is meer culturele antropologie. Het zoeken naar universele archetypen wordt tegenwoordig tijdverspilling gevonden.
Relevanter zijn associaties met symboliek. Voor de een is een moskee het symbool van spirituele rust. Voor de ander is een moskee een symbool van politieke onrust.
nou, ik vindt het wel onethisch om psychologisch tactieken toe te passen op mensen = geeft weer het feit dat men niet anders kan dan mensen belazeren om de eigen kijk op de dingen te laten gelden dat kan niet het geval zijn anders op een keurig gezond manier
ik probeer meestaal van die onschulidge choc therapieen op mensen toe te passen , alleen om ze tot denken aan te zetten , meer niet , ik gebruik geen discussie tactieken want dat is al per definitie self -refuting self-defeating
Trollen vinden shocktherapie hartstikke lekker, ze doen het erom.
by the way :
moet je ook niet het feit ontkenen dat je probeert je eigen kijk op de dingen op een subtiel manier in mijn eigen hoofd haha te laten nestelen haha = geeft niet ,want dat doe je op een keurig ,niet op een kwaadaardig , manier
christene bijv zijn al lang bekend om om het feit dat ze bepaalde kwaadaardige tactieken gebruiken om mensen te laten bekeren tot het christendom zoals charity work ...zie de jesuieten in Z.Amerika, in japan , in China ...de laatsten werden uit zowel china als japan weggejaagd voor die redenen in de middeleeuwen haha
zie ook hoe de CIA , KGB ...psychologische methoden hadden ontwikkeld om hun eigen spionen te trainen & om gevangenen beter te kunnen ondervragen, desnoods via psychologisch & ander tortuur ...zie Guantanamo bay tactieken ...
Dat ije eigen kijk op dingen is een natuurlijk proces. Ik moet zeggen dat Slavoj en Alain Badiou mijn kijk op Paulus van Tarsus hebben veranderd. Hoe dat zit legt Slavoj uit in The Montrosity of Christ (http://www.sok.bz/web/media/video/ChristZizek.pdf) (.pdf file).
ok, doe maar joh , thanks , appreciate , would be extremely interesting to lay my hands or eyes on what that guy has to say = sounds like quite a thinker = interesting = zou zijn denken door mijn eigen fiters kunnen gaan om er uit wat interessants moois waars te distilleren, want ik geloof er wel in dat elk cultuur, elk geloof, elk denkstroming, elk mensen ervaringnen ...wel elementen van waarheid bevatten , om maar te zwijgen over de wetenschap naturlijk
Het enige boek van Slavoj, vertaald in het Nederlands, is Violence. Dat gaat over politiek en culturisatie van politiek. De Engelse .pdf-versie heb ik bewerkt zodat je tekst kunt kopiëren en het boek kunt doorzoeken: 2008 Violence pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29924558/2008_-_Violence.pdf)
Een boek waar ik al uit geciteerd heb is The Plague of Fantasies en dat is verdiepende studie over het thema westerse relipsychose al dan niet gesublimeerd als atheďsme (New Atheism, Sam Harris) zoals in Violence staat: 2009 The Plague of Fantasies Second Edition pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29924618/2009_-_The_Plague_of_Fantasies_Second_Edition_.pdf)
P.S.
De aanbevolen films in Slavoj's boeken heb ik ook allemaal bekeken :hihi:
P.S.: moet ik eindelijk toegeven dat ik die komisch Slinger als een onschuldig troy's horse gebruik om mijn topics te laten functioneren want weinige mensen reageren eerst op mijn topics haha, vandaar
had ik deze "geheimpje " eingenlijk niet moeten verklappen met alle gevolgen van dien
Slinger lijkt me niet los te laten ook want hij volgt me op de voet in elk topic haha , the poor lad , waaroom ? das overduidelijk haha Voor Slinger ben jij, Freudiaans gedefinieerd, een fetish. Lacan werkt het thema fetish uit en ja hoor, je ziet Slinger alles volgens het boekje doen zonder dat Slinger weet wat hij aan het doen is. (The Plagues of Fantasy).
[quote=Slinger;4800680][quote=Harts intelligentie;4800662]
Get real
violence is necessary sometimes , ever heard of wars or just wars for example ?
so, u do think that the west ,israel,....should wage wars against their enemies & muslims not ? haha
Ik begrijp het, je keurt het gebruik van geweld goed. Djihad hč? Dat zal toch wel met de islam te maken hebben. Daarmee geef je dus aan dat wat Breivik deed ook in Nederland kan gebeuren, en het wordt toegestaan door personen als jij.
[quote=Slinger;4800684][quote=Harts intelligentie;4800662]
if it does happen anyway , that fascist pvv pig would be the responsible number 1 for that as Hitler was the responsible number 1 for nazi crimes [/B]
Net zoals Hitler verantwoordelijk was voor de nazi-misdaden zijn de islamofascisten verantwoordelijk voor de aanslagen in onze tijd.
Harts intelligentie
18-08-11, 19:46
Cool, daar wordt in Frankrijk goed over nagedacht. Een verdienste van Slavoj is dat hij Hegeliaanse terminologie heeft vertaald naar Lacaanse terminologie.
Freud is hooguit interessant in het perspectief van Karl Marx.
Jung is meer culturele antropologie. Het zoeken naar universele archetypen wordt tegenwoordig tijdverspilling gevonden.
Relevanter zijn associaties met symboliek. Voor de een is een moskee het symbool van spirituele rust. Voor de ander is een moskee een symbool van politieke onrust.
Trollen vinden shocktherapie hartstikke lekker, ze doen het erom.
Dat ije eigen kijk op dingen is een natuurlijk proces. Ik moet zeggen dat Slavoj en Alain Badiou mijn kijk op Paulus van Tarsus hebben veranderd. Hoe dat zit legt Slavoj uit in The Montrosity of Christ (http://www.sok.bz/web/media/video/ChristZizek.pdf) (.pdf file).
Het enige boek van Slavoj, vertaald in het Nederlands, is Violence. Dat gaat over politiek en culturisatie van politiek. De Engelse .pdf-versie heb ik bewerkt zodat je tekst kunt kopiëren en het boek kunt doorzoeken: 2008 Violence pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29924558/2008_-_Violence.pdf)
Een boek waar ik al uit geciteerd heb is The Plague of Fantasies en dat is verdiepende studie over het thema westerse relipsychose al dan niet gesublimeerd als atheďsme (New Atheism, Sam Harris) zoals in Violence staat: 2009 The Plague of Fantasies Second Edition pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29924618/2009_-_The_Plague_of_Fantasies_Second_Edition_.pdf)
P.S.
De aanbevolen films in Slavoj's boeken heb ik ook allemaal bekeken :hihi:
Voor Slinger ben jij, Freudiaans gedefinieerd, een fetish. Lacan werkt het thema fetish uit en ja hoor, je ziet Slinger alles volgens het boekje doen zonder dat Slinger weet wat hij aan het doen is. (The Plagues of Fantasy).
I do not know how to thank u , buddy
I have downloaded violence & the plague of fantasies, working on the rest
Thank u very much indeed , appreciate
Talk to u later
have a nice evening
u are a real treasure
Harts intelligentie
18-08-11, 19:54
The English Riots In Context By Rebel Griot (http://www.countercurrents.org/griot130811.htm)
Harts intelligentie
18-08-11, 20:02
[quote=Harts intelligentie;4801430][quote=Slinger;4800684]
Net zoals Hitler verantwoordelijk was voor de nazi-misdaden zijn de islamofascisten verantwoordelijk voor de aanslagen in onze tijd.
[quote=Harts intelligentie;4801398][quote=Slinger;4800680]
Ik begrijp het, je keurt het gebruik van geweld goed. Djihad hč? Dat zal toch wel met de islam te maken hebben. Daarmee geef je dus aan dat wat Breivik deed ook in Nederland kan gebeuren, en het wordt toegestaan door personen als jij.
:lol:
The English Riots In Context By Rebel Griot (http://www.countercurrents.org/griot130811.htm)
[quote=Slinger;4802185][quote=Harts intelligentie;4801430]
[quote=Slinger;4802182][quote=Harts intelligentie;4801398]
:lol:
Je hebt geen antwoord op mijn analyse, merk ik.
Harts intelligentie
19-08-11, 00:12
[quote=Harts intelligentie;4802387][quote=Slinger;4802185][quote=Harts intelligentie;4801430]
[quote=Slinger;4802182]
Je hebt geen antwoord op mijn analyse, merk ik.
analyse ? haha :tover:
Harts intelligentie
19-08-11, 00:42
Cool, daar wordt in Frankrijk goed over nagedacht. Een verdienste van Slavoj is dat hij Hegeliaanse terminologie heeft vertaald naar Lacaanse terminologie.
Freud is hooguit interessant in het perspectief van Karl Marx.
Jung is meer culturele antropologie. Het zoeken naar universele archetypen wordt tegenwoordig tijdverspilling gevonden.
Relevanter zijn associaties met symboliek. Voor de een is een moskee het symbool van spirituele rust. Voor de ander is een moskee een symbool van politieke onrust.
Trollen vinden shocktherapie hartstikke lekker, ze doen het erom.
Dat ije eigen kijk op dingen is een natuurlijk proces. Ik moet zeggen dat Slavoj en Alain Badiou mijn kijk op Paulus van Tarsus hebben veranderd. Hoe dat zit legt Slavoj uit in The Montrosity of Christ (http://www.sok.bz/web/media/video/ChristZizek.pdf) (.pdf file).
Het enige boek van Slavoj, vertaald in het Nederlands, is Violence. Dat gaat over politiek en culturisatie van politiek. De Engelse .pdf-versie heb ik bewerkt zodat je tekst kunt kopiëren en het boek kunt doorzoeken: 2008 Violence pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29924558/2008_-_Violence.pdf)
Een boek waar ik al uit geciteerd heb is The Plague of Fantasies en dat is verdiepende studie over het thema westerse relipsychose al dan niet gesublimeerd als atheďsme (New Atheism, Sam Harris) zoals in Violence staat: 2009 The Plague of Fantasies Second Edition pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29924618/2009_-_The_Plague_of_Fantasies_Second_Edition_.pdf)
P.S.
De aanbevolen films in Slavoj's boeken heb ik ook allemaal bekeken :hihi:
Voor Slinger ben jij, Freudiaans gedefinieerd, een fetish. Lacan werkt het thema fetish uit en ja hoor, je ziet Slinger alles volgens het boekje doen zonder dat Slinger weet wat hij aan het doen is. (The Plagues of Fantasy).
vervolg ;
awesome stuff, buddy , fascinating , i read some of it :
I happen to have watched that very interesting "The Village " movie , i even have fallen in love haha with that gorgeous actor who has played the rol of that blind lady that had to go bring some medicines ....fully agree with Zizek on his analysis of the film .........breathtaking
Besides;
I can imagine that some muslims would try to do just that = live secluded shielding themselves from the outside world , but that 's not an islamic thing to do , islam that stimulates muslims to confront the reality not run away from it
but muslims must try to live in a community of muslims though
US air force threat or not haha
furthermore :
I think there is some truth in that Freudian 'father figure " : that Romanian dictator or those Arab dictators embody such a thing perfectly really
Hassan II of morocco used to like to think of himself as the father of the nation haha
worse : there is a certain UNIslamic tradition in the past & current history of muslims that considered/considers the leader/sultan/king/president as almost "equal " to God's figure , hashalillah , as the sacred replacers of God on earth haha
Thank u very much , buddy
This is exactly the kindda inspirations i have been looking for , i cannot thank u enough for that
If u happen to have some more things like that or some more digital books , feel free to send them to me in any way u want to
My apologies for my silly previous behaviour with u really , fills me with shame
even that link about the Qur'an reasoning is not so bad , even though , it is much more difficult & much more professional for me , can't they try to make things simple in that regard because philosophy & all that kindda stuff are not my fields of 'expertise" ...........
would u happen to have some good easy sources in relation to all that philosophical talk : hermeunetics, language philosophy ...? or some digital books of Lacan for example or others ?
Good night, buddy , thanks again , appreciate
that book about christ seems also extremely interesting , i am gonna make time enough for all of that
u are a real treasure island of inspirations really here in this forum in the middle of this forum 'sea " of vulgarity, ignorance, stupidity, stereotypes, brain wash , mental conditioning ...................an oasis of insights , inspirations , knowledge , wisdom ..........in the middle of this forum 'desert "
Take care , bye :zwaai:
vervolg ;
awesome stuff, buddy , fascinating , i read some of it :
I happen to have watched that very interesting "The Village " movie , i even have fallen in love haha with that gorgeous actor who has played the rol of that blind lady that had to go bring some medicines ....fully agree with Zizek on his analysis of the film .........breathtaking
At some point I lost interest watching movies. But after Zizek's The Perverts Guide to Cinema I had to buy an extra harddisk to store all the downloaded movies.
furthermore :
I think there is some truth in that Freudian 'father figure " : that Romanian dictator or those Arab dictators embody such a thing perfectly really
Hassan II of morocco used to like to think of himself as the father of the nation haha
worse : there is a certain UNIslamic tradition in the past & current history of muslims that considered/considers the leader/sultan/king/president as almost "equal " to God's figure , hashalillah , as the sacred replacers of God on earth haha
The Big Other, for Muslims in Holland - according to Slinger - Geert Wilders.
If we don't obey Wilders it will have grave consequences like shooting and killing young Socialists :eek:
My apologies for my silly previous behaviour with u really , fills me with shame
No harm intended
Er is zo veel concreet onrecht in de wereld. Al de abstracte ideeën bestuderen voor verbetering is een grote klus. Er zijn veel te veel boeken die alleen maar dienen om het ego van de auteur te vergroten en alles bij het oude te laten. En taal kan dubbelzinnig zijn.
Moeilijk om op een forum te onderscheiden wie een egotripper isen wie serieus de rede bestudeert om de wereld vooruit te helpen.
even that link about the Qur'an reasoning is not so bad , even though , it is much more difficult & much more professional for me , can't they try to make things simple in that regard because philosophy & all that kindda stuff are not my fields of 'expertise" ...........
would u happen to have some good easy sources in relation to all that philosophical talk : hermeunetics, language philosophy ...? or some digital books of Lacan for example or others ?
Hermeneutiek (Eng. hermeneutics) is oorspronkelijk de theorie van bijbelexegese.
Tegenwoordig is bijbelexegese veranderd in exegese. Vertaald naar de islam is hermeneutiek de theorie van de tafsir (koranexegese).
Specifiekere beschrijvingen op de site van Mulla Sadra :MullaSadra's Site ... (SIPRIn) (http://www.mullasadra.org/new_site/english/Paper%20Bank/Philosophy%20of%20Knowledges/Hermeneutic/Titles.htm)
Wat Tim Winter's hermeneutical ontology (zijnsleer) betreft leert de koran wie je bent.
Karygmatic ontology (indoctrinatie) legt een zelfbeeld op dat anders is dan je innerlijke authenticiteit.
Indoctrinatie komt overal voor en kan een mens tot een onrechtvaardig mens maken:
Testimonial injustice occurs when prejudice causes a hearer to
give a deflated level of credibility to a speaker’s word; hermeneutical
injustice occurs at a prior stage, when a gap in collective interpretive
resources puts someone at an unfair disadvantage when it comes to
making sense of their social experiences. An example of the first might
be that the police do not believe you because you are black; an example
of the second might be that you suffer sexual harassment in a culture
that still lacks that critical concept. We might say that testimonial
injustice is caused by prejudice in the economy of credibility; and that
hermeneutical injustice is caused by structural prejudice in the economy
of collective hermeneutical resources.
Miranda Fricker
Taalfilosofie: Miller Philosophy of Language pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941911/Miller_-_Philosophy_of_Language.pdf) (een classic, hermeneutics)
Writings on Lacan:
The Cambridge Companion to Lacan pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941922/The_Cambridge_Companion_to_Lacan.pdf)
2007 How to Read Lacan pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941933/2007_-_How_to_Read_Lacan.pdf) (Zizek legt uit en analyseert ook de brief van Mohammed B.)
Van Lacan heb ik een aantal vertalingen in het Engels (matige kwaliteit .pdf)
In het Frans zwartwit t.v. uit 1973, audio .mpga bestanden die bijna niemand af kan spelen, en Microsoft Word documenten. Een beetje een rommeltje maar beter is niet te krijgen.
Mocht je dit willen proberen dan kan ik kijken of ik het ook kan uploaden.
that book about christ seems also extremely interesting , i am gonna make time enough for all of that
The end of Christian theology :baard:
At some point I lost interest watching movies. But after Zizek's The Pervert Guide to Cinema I had to buy an extra harddisk to store all the downloaded movies.
Hé Blackbox, ik ben wel geďnteresseerd. Kun je mij die Pervert Guide to Cinema ook doen toekomen?
Hé Blackbox, ik ben wel geďnteresseerd. Kun je mij die Pervert Guide to Cinema ook doen toekomen?
Dat is een DVD (5,76 GB) die je kunt downloaden - voor privégebruik - via torrent.
Naast de DVD zijn er ook .avi-versies (800 MB).
Harts intelligentie
19-08-11, 23:36
At some point I lost interest watching movies.
The same goes for me , i am fed up with those standard ideological, romantic , commercial...mainstream Hollywoodian movies
I will try to share some movies with real depth with u that had captivated me ,another time, like one concerning that unloved guy who succeeded in producing THE ultimate perfume of love : too much of that love made the mob devore him at the end, not that i am an unloved guy myself, on the contrary haha or that i dream of producing such a thing myself haha ....or another one played by Nicholas Cage concerning an ancient schotish christian cult practiced by a christian isolated community of women mainly in a deserted semi-island in some parts of the USA , a cult that reduced the role of men to their capacity of reproduction ..............even if it would mean reducing them to sex-reproduction objects or even if it would mean sacrificing them in the process as were women before , ironically enough , no wonder that that community of women had some sort of a queen & was obsessed by having bees ' colonies ...
There are some great movies i watched also i do not recall right now , another time then
The Ramadan charming unmatched beautiful inspiring peaceful elevating ethical ...'magice " sphere has been taking me to other higher dimentions , so
I think therefore that there is nothing more beautiful charming captivating inspiring ...that the islamic easthetics for example = even higher than any human fine art or easthetics ever
islamic symbols , Qur'anic eloquence poetry , parabols , metaphors ......are beyond any description even ...
But after Zizek's The Pervert Guide to Cinema I had to buy an extra harddisk to store all the downloaded movies.
any guide like that is a subjective thing , i prefer to choose the movies i watch myself mainly , as much as possible at least , away from that suggestive Hollywoodian make -believe & away from any "spiritual leader ' 's , paternalistic father figure 's vodoo , with all due respect to Zizek or others , no offense
Do not understand me wrong on this , i do appreciate the rich insights , ideas ....of Zizek i intend to study more closely , thank u for that opportunity = great thinker , so it seems : i do " find myself " in some of his ideas indeed so far at least
but there are so many secular & religious phony "prophets " that mislead people that i try never to glorify any human in that regard while learning from everybody , even from the devil in person haha if u get my point
The Big Other, for Muslims in Holland - according to Slinger - Geert Wilders.
If we don't obey Wilders it will have grave consequences like shooting and killing young Socialists :eek:
well, buddy , u seem to give too much importance & attention to a tiny land like holland & to that silly vulgar fascist pig , u shouldn't = he is a nobody , he is not even inspiring , interesting or funny = fascists , racists ...never are=
=disgusting fake copies of modern times Don Quichottes , but the fictious Don Quichotte has his place in my heart , mind & soul because he is an endless source of inspirations & because he makes me laugh a lot really , such tragic -hilarious fictious Don Qucihotte is our own warning mirror that teaches us not to take ourselves too seriously while being able to make some fun of ourselves, of our ignorance, stupidity , ...sometimes
there are so many faces of Don Quichotte in each & every one of us
No harm intended
Thought so , thanks , anger is a bad adviser
I cannot count the times i laughed at myself , the times i was angry at myself, calling myself an idiot ...for saying some things here or elsewhere , for doing some things = we are all silly fools , the one more or less than the other , life is an endless learnig -growing process indeed
Er is zo veel concreet onrecht in de wereld. Al de abstracte ideeën bestuderen voor verbetering is een grote klus. Er zijn veel te veel boeken die alleen maar dienen om het ego van de auteur te vergroten en alles bij het oude te laten. En taal kan dubbelzinnig zijn.
Moeilijk om op een forum te onderscheiden wie een egotripper isen wie serieus de rede bestudeert om de wereld vooruit te helpen.
I really do not understand why people behave the silly vulgar immature populistic ...destructive negative way they do here instead of trying to learn from each other
There is an extremely beautiful verse in the Qur'an that says something like : God had created us as different peoples , tribes .... or cultures in order to get to know each other :
That's how i see the different peoples & cultures in this planet as enriching , inspiring .....trying to take the best of every culture , peoples ............
I prefer to learn something than to engage in such silly stupid discussions here really
I try to understand this world & the peoples in it in order to try to make a better person of myself, in order to try to make some sort of a difference ...sounds like an old fashion naive unrealistic cliche , but i mean it , considering the fact that the theory of chaos for example had shown & proved that tiny individual action can make the difference somehow sometimes
I am very disappointed by most of the current so-called muslims , by most westerners & others
I am very disappointed in most of this current humanity that can do a lot better than this
humans can brag about landing on the moon , about unveiling some secrets of the universe , but they still cannot dare focuss their attention on what's much more important for them & in them = the human nature , psyche , behaviour .............that have not changed a bit since the stone age ...
most humans & even the so-called "civilized" humans are worst than beasts , unfortunately enough , even if they would land on the "sun itself " haha , aiie , i hope they would , so they can melt there haha so the world can get rid of them that way haha
Hermeneutiek (Eng. hermeneutics) is oorspronkelijk de theorie van bijbelexegese.
Tegenwoordig is bijbelexegese veranderd in exegese. Vertaald naar de islam is hermeneutiek de theorie van de tafsir (koranexegese).
Specifiekere beschrijvingen op de site van Mulla Sadra :MullaSadra's Site ... (SIPRIn) (http://www.mullasadra.org/new_site/english/Paper%20Bank/Philosophy%20of%20Knowledges/Hermeneutic/Titles.htm)
Wat Tim Winter's hermeneutical ontology (zijnsleer) betreft leert de koran wie je bent.
Karygmatic ontology (indoctrinatie) legt een zelfbeeld op dat anders is dan je innerlijke authenticiteit.
Indoctrinatie komt overal voor en kan een mens tot een onrechtvaardig mens maken:
Testimonial injustice occurs when prejudice causes a hearer to
[QUOTE]give a deflated level of credibility to a speaker’s word; hermeneutical
injustice occurs at a prior stage, when a gap in collective interpretive
resources puts someone at an unfair disadvantage when it comes to
making sense of their social experiences. An example of the first might
be that the police do not believe you because you are black; an example
of the second might be that you suffer sexual harassment in a culture
that still lacks that critical concept. We might say that testimonial
injustice is caused by prejudice in the economy of credibility; and that
hermeneutical injustice is caused by structural prejudice in the economy
of collective hermeneutical resources.Miranda Fricker
Taalfilosofie: Miller Philosophy of Language pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941911/Miller_-_Philosophy_of_Language.pdf) (een classic, hermeneutics)
Writings on Lacan:
The Cambridge Companion to Lacan pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941922/The_Cambridge_Companion_to_Lacan.pdf)
2007 How to Read Lacan pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941933/2007_-_How_to_Read_Lacan.pdf) (Zizek legt uit en analyseert ook de brief van Mohammed B.)
Van Lacan heb ik een aantal vertalingen in het Engels (matige kwaliteit .pdf)
In het Frans zwartwit t.v. uit 1973, audio .mpga bestanden die bijna niemand af kan spelen, en Microsoft Word documenten. Een beetje een rommeltje maar beter is niet te krijgen.Mocht je dit willen proberen dan kan ik kijken of ik het ook kan uploaden.
I will take time to take a look at all that , thank u very much, appreciate
The end of Christian theology :baard:
well, that has nothing to do with great noble prophet jewish human Jesus who was sent to jews only ....by Allah, the Jesus we believe in, we respect , we love ....as we do in relation to all prophets from Adam to Mohammed ,including Moses , Solomon ....& the rest
christianity existed only in the heads of that criminal antisemistic fraud paulus mainly & in the heads of the other criminal frauds Bible writers, so = christianity wad dead a long time ago = was born dead , was declared dead by islam, by sience, by history .................so= a non-issue
[t criminal antisemistic fraud paulus mainly & in the heads of the other criminal frauds Bible writers
Mag je wel haten tijdens ramadan?
Harts intelligentie
20-08-11, 15:34
Mag je wel haten tijdens ramadan?
Das geen haat , maar een feit
Tijdens Ramadan blijft de moslim een mens, wordt geen engel
Ramadan die tracht van een moslim een verheven moslim te maken althans
Harts intelligentie
20-08-11, 15:57
[QUOTE=BlackBox
Hermeneutiek (Eng. hermeneutics) is oorspronkelijk de theorie van bijbelexegese.
vervolg :
weet ik :
Ik heb bijna dezelfde bezwaren tegen die Eurocentrisch cultureel hermeneutiek zoals wordt vermeld in die Qur'an reasoning link van winter , kan niet zomaar toegepast aan de Qu'ran, de laatste is de Bijbel niet ...
Tegenwoordig is bijbelexegese veranderd in exegese. Vertaald naar de islam is hermeneutiek de theorie van de tafsir (koranexegese).
De theorie van tafsir or taaouil is anders dan de westerse hermeneutiek
Specifiekere beschrijvingen op de site van Mulla Sadra :MullaSadra's Site ... (SIPRIn) (http://www.mullasadra.org/new_site/english/Paper%20Bank/Philosophy%20of%20Knowledges/Hermeneutic/Titles.htm)
I will take a closer look at that , thanks
u seem obsessed by this Mulla Sadra & lately by Zizek & Lacan = not a bad thing
I have my own passions too
Wat Tim Winter's hermeneutical ontology (zijnsleer) betreft leert de koran wie je bent.
Does this Tim know Arabic at least ? that's a must if he pretend to do what he does in relation to the Qur'an , otherwise one cannot take him seriously really
je kent het imperialistisch racistisch paternalistisch crimineel leugenachtig onwetenschappelijk verleden van westerse Orientalisme, anthropologie ....je kan dus wel begrijpen dat ik wantrouwing ben met betrekking tot deze soort westerse denkers in relatie tot de Qu'ran notabene , al zouden ze zich had bekeerd tot de islam
wie geeft deze winter het recht om zulke studies aan de Qu'ran toe te passen ? heeft ie genoeg kennis over islam , Qu'ran ,hadiths , tafsir ...? spreekt ie Arabisch ? wat hoopte ie te bereiken daarmee ?
weet je , deze soort westerse benaderingnen van islam hebben al een doel op zich , ze hebben al een conclusie vooraf vastgesteld : namelijk dat islam slechts een cultuur is die dezelfde seculaire pad moet betreden net als het christendom, jodendom ..., ze proberen dat te "bewijzen " via deze omgekeerd manier maar hun conclusie staat al vast , net als Thomas van Aquino die had geprobeerd het bestaan van God te "bewijzen " maar hij had natuurlijk als gelovige al besloten dat God wel bestond dus , das wat deze moderne westerse denkers proberen te doen met islam achter al die geraffineerd ongenuanceerd gepraat
das iets totaal anders dan Descartes' absurd reasoning bijv die wel een legetiem plaats heeft in wiskunde , logica
Karygmatic ontology (indoctrinatie) legt een zelfbeeld op dat anders is dan je innerlijke authenticiteit.
allemaal barbaarse woorden voor me , min of meer :
1 ding is zeker , man kan ander ethiek , culturen niet via de eigen benaderen , laat staan islam benaderen das geen cultuur is via de eigen cultuur notabene
Indoctrinatie komt overal voor en kan een mens tot een onrechtvaardig mens maken:
je hebt ook wel athetistisch seculaire materialistsch indoctrinaties , politieke indoctrinaties, economische indoctrinaties, culturele indoctrinaties , psychologische ....
opvoeding van kinderen is al op zich een sorrt indoctrinatie, relatief gezien, min of meer
Testimonial injustice occurs when prejudice causes a hearer to
give a deflated level of credibility to a speaker’s word; hermeneutical
injustice occurs at a prior stage, when a gap in collective interpretive
resources puts someone at an unfair disadvantage when it comes to
making sense of their social experiences. An example of the first might
be that the police do not believe you because you are black; an example
of the second might be that you suffer sexual harassment in a culture
that still lacks that critical concept. We might say that testimonial
injustice is caused by prejudice in the economy of credibility; and that
hermeneutical injustice is caused by structural prejudice in the economy
of collective hermeneutical resources.
Miranda Fricker
Ok, but hermeneutics themselves, justice ....are also a matter of culture society ...
That's why i am very suspicious concerning the fact that one tries to apply western cultural ideological Eurocentric hermeneutics to the Qur'an : i think only true muslims with proper knowledge should do that
Taalfilosofie: Miller Philosophy of Language pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941911/Miller_-_Philosophy_of_Language.pdf) (een classic, hermeneutics)
I will take a look at that , thanks indeed
Writings on Lacan:
The Cambridge Companion to Lacan pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941922/The_Cambridge_Companion_to_Lacan.pdf)
2007 How to Read Lacan pdf (http://www.speedyshare.com/files/29941933/2007_-_How_to_Read_Lacan.pdf) (Zizek legt uit en analyseert ook de brief van Mohammed B.)
sounds extremely interesting , appreciate , i will make time for that too , thanks
Van Lacan heb ik een aantal vertalingen in het Engels (matige kwaliteit .pdf)
In het Frans zwartwit t.v. uit 1973, audio .mpga bestanden die bijna niemand af kan spelen, en Microsoft Word documenten. Een beetje een rommeltje maar beter is niet te krijgen.
het is in ieder geval beter dan niks haha , doe maar
Mocht je dit willen proberen dan kan ik kijken of ik het ook kan uploaden.
zou ik inderdaad zeer op prijs stellen , bedankt voor al die moeite : u are a generous gentleman , u make me speechless
I respect ur sense, will of sharing , generosity ...............
Harts intelligentie
20-08-11, 18:14
T.a.v.Black Box ;
thanks for everything, appreciate
I was just having some internet connection problems , that's why i could not download some of the stuff u gave me
the problem is fixed now , so
Das geen haat , maar een feit
Tijdens Ramadan blijft de moslim een mens, wordt geen engel
Ramadan die tracht van een moslim een verheven moslim te maken althans
Ja, met het onderscheiden van feiten en meningen heb jij altijd wel moeite.
[quote=Slinger;4802397][quote=Harts intelligentie;4802387][quote=Slinger;4802185][quote=Harts intelligentie;4801430]
analyse ? haha :tover:
:lol:
Harts intelligentie
20-08-11, 19:34
Ja, met het onderscheiden van feiten en meningen heb jij altijd wel moeite.
:lol:
Harts intelligentie
20-08-11, 23:44
T.av. Black Box :
Thanks once again , appreciate , awesome , fascinating stuff
I guess u do have some digital library
Look, do u happen to have some non-marxist digital books , some books u think it is a must to read ?
or some books of Max Weber about the psychology or religion for example
or even some books of marxist Mohammed 3abid Al Jabiri .....
or some great literature books like those of Charles Dickens , Mark Twain , Shakespeare ....Homero's Odyssey or stuff like that ? if that's not too much to ask
some books about anthropology , history writing , psychology , sociology .....
Do u have any digital books of Edouard Said ,especially "Orientalism " ?
or just some stuff u would advice me to read ...
Take care, thanks,Good night
The same goes for me , i am fed up with those standard ideological, romantic , commercial...mainstream Hollywoodian movies
I will try to share some movies with real depth with u that had captivated me ,another time, like one concerning that unloved guy who succeeded in producing THE ultimate perfume of love : too much of that love made the mob devore him at the end, not that i am an unloved guy myself, on the contrary haha or that i dream of producing such a thing myself haha ....or another one played by Nicholas Cage concerning an ancient schotish christian cult practiced by a christian isolated community of women mainly in a deserted semi-island in some parts of the USA , a cult that reduced the role of men to their capacity of reproduction ..............even if it would mean reducing them to sex-reproduction objects or even if it would mean sacrificing them in the process as were women before , ironically enough , no wonder that that community of women had some sort of a queen & was obsessed by having bees ' colonies ...
There are some great movies i watched also i do not recall right now , another time then
Perfume is the very good example of Lacananian substraction (Objet petit a). It's brought up in The Plagues of Fantasies. The 2 other examples (movies) are rather boring.
Perfume can also be seen of a good picture of the French Revolution's mass-hysteria.
The Perverts Guide to Cinema is nice introduction. Analysing The Marx Brothers, Charlie Chaplin, Ingmar Bergmann and so on. But if you want to go deeper into the subject of mass-manipulation there are not only books by Žižek but also a number of video lectures. On the difference between tolerate and acceptance (an issue first brought up by Tariq Ramadan) Slavoj held a lecture with the intriguing title Fear Thy Neighbour as Thyself.
well, buddy , u seem to give too much importance & attention to a tiny land like holland & to that silly vulgar fascist pig , u shouldn't = he is a nobody , he is not even inspiring , interesting or funny = fascists , racists ...never are=
=disgusting fake copies of modern times Don Quichottes , but the fictious Don Quichotte has his place in my heart , mind & soul because he is an endless source of inspirations & because he makes me laugh a lot really , such tragic -hilarious fictious Don Qucihotte is our own warning mirror that teaches us not to take ourselves too seriously while being able to make some fun of ourselves, of our ignorance, stupidity , ...sometimes
there are so many faces of Don Quichotte in each & every one of us
In his writings Breivink mentions Wilders a couple of times.
Beside that the topictitle is Can what happened in Norway take place in Holland?
Wilders as the Big Other (superego) is also a recommedation from the polical left (Ron Haleber!).
Most of all the institionalizing of cruelty as a political instrument staart with the Frenc Jacobins -> Dutch Poison (lethal injection) :maf:
christianity existed only in the heads of that criminal antisemistic fraud paulus mainly & in the heads of the other criminal frauds Bible writers, so = christianity wad dead a long time ago = was born dead , was declared dead by islam, by sience, by history .................so= a non-issue
The father of the philosophy of language (Paul) reveals the ambuigity of the Scripture. After reading The Montrosity of Christ you can even interprete the so-called Christian martyrs as a suicide-cult foreshadowing The French Revolution as a suicide-cult, neozionism as a suicide-cult and so on. The same Christian martyrs as Chris Hedge referred to in the article you offered.
Semantically spoken Paul proved that you can change God into Devil, Good into Evil, Hate into Love and so on in the whole Bible iScripture without the change making a formal difference.
In fact it doesn't matter if the whole Bible is a fraud (Fear Thy Neighbour as Thyself!).
Max Weber's blind spot or so tot say omission is not digging that Calvinism is generating bureaucracy (the mother of all bureaucracy).
Keigoed, en da's gemeend. :lole:
Harts intelligentie
23-08-11, 00:57
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4807591]Perfume is the very good example of Lacananian substraction (Objet petit a). It's brought up in The Plagues of Fantasies. The 2 other examples (movies) are rather boring.
Nice talking to u again , buddy , where have u been ?
I must admit i wanna talk just to u in this forum really haha , not to anyone else except to rbn, Eke ...., the rest are boring , uninteresting ...
sounds more like psychological literature , the 'perfume" is awesome = i never thought of it the way Zizsek analysed it = fascinating
"The village ' is not bad = very actual , i also have the feeling sometimes i wanna live in a community of true moslims away from this insane intolerant oppressive repressive savage ...world, even away from the curent muslims that are mostly extremely disappointing & do not live up to islam , the latter that stands higher than they are because muslims have closed Al Ijtihad door for centuries now ... but that's an unislamic thing to do : to live secluded , we gotta confront reality
I did take a look at "The Christ monstrosity " : some philosophical parts of it are too difficult for me i try to comprehend , in vain, i must admit , but i am getting there : slow but sure like the british say
I just wanna say this about it :
Zizek tries to find a way to confront decadent capitalism via the both defeated marxist notions & the christian ones : a kindda spiritual materialism because the only way to confront the material capitalism is via materialistic approaches , i do not disagree with that much because capitalism or any other system for that matter , including all forms of materialism, do have material & immaterial sides as all human activities do by the way
I suggest that he would find what he was looking for in ...islam,because islam is both material & spiritual , individualistic multidimentional & holistic = an understatement , islam as not only individual collective, material spiritual but also political economic , social, juridcial....as u know
Perfume can also be seen of a good picture of the French Revolution's mass-hysteria.
I have a different look at 'perfume " now thanks to u in the first place & to zizek : awesome : i never thought of it that way : "perfume ' can have many other faces in different historic periods like Don Quichotte , Frankeinstein's monster , Moby Dick, Don Juan ...& others do in fact , great = sources of endless inspirations
this little devil Zizek haha is quite a fascinating thinker really = he has already unchained some inner reactions in me haha i will tell u about another time
The Perverts Guide to Cinema is nice introduction. Analysing The Marx Brothers, Charlie Chaplin, Ingmar Bergmann and so on. But if you want to go deeper into the subject of mass-manipulation there are not only books by Žižek but also a number of video lectures. On the difference between tolerate and acceptance (an issue first brought up by Tariq Ramadan) Slavoj held a lecture with the intriguing title Fear Thy Neighbour as Thyself.
sounds interesting , i love art in general , i think that art is more capable of addressing these issues related to Man , to Man's destiny, Man's nature , behaviour ...than any other human field .............forgive my hasty reactions sometimes
In his writings Breivink mentions Wilders a couple of times.
yeah, no wonder
Beside that the topictitle is Can what happened in Norway take place in Holland?
Wilders as the Big Other (superego) is also a recommedation from the polical left (Ron Haleber!).
western neo-imperialism as the previous ones fulfill that superego function perfectly in relation to muslims & to the rest of the world= many muslims & others see themselves through the lenses of the west , unfortunately enough
see this book of economy nobel prize winner on the matter :British -Indian Amartya Sen : "Identity & violence : the illusion of destiny ", even though it is just a disappointing Eurocentric liberal secular view
Most of all the institionalizing of cruelty as a political instrument staart with the Frenc Jacobins -> Dutch Poison (lethal injection) :maf:
cruelty as a political instrument is much older than that : makes part of the human nature as violence does
The father of the philosophy of language (Paul) reveals the ambuigity of the Scripture. After reading The Montrosity of Christ you can even interprete the so-called Christian martyrs as a suicide-cult foreshadowing The French Revolution as a suicide-cult, neozionism as a suicide-cult and so on. The same Christian martyrs as Chris Hedge referred to in the article you offered.
That sounds too simplistic , we can also extend that logic to muslims = too unnuanced = self-sacrifice , altruism ....make part of the human nature , the right belief just gives the proper look & stimulus to that = there are causes worth dying for : islam for example as THE cause of all causes , not like what those suicide bombers did/do, no , but in the true Jihad way
Semantically spoken Paul proved that you can change God into Devil, Good into Evil, Hate into Love and so on in the whole Bible iScripture without the change making a formal difference.
well, thanks to paulus mainly
islam is different in that regard
[QUOTE]In fact it doesn't matter if the whole Bible is a fraud (Fear Thy Neighbour as Thyself!)
The Bible is a fraud indeed
Look, buddy :
i am far away from home , my laptop battery is almost finished
talk to u another time, thanks appreciate
Friday, 10 December 2010
Liberal versus Conservative Postmodern Theology
According to Slavoj Žižek, the Slovenian sometimes theological philosopher, Christian postmodernists are too keen to follow the death of the death of God. In particular he focuses on his sparring partner John Milbank (Milbank, Žižek, 2009), Milbank being next door theologically to Rowan Williams.
To understand this, the starting point is Max Weber and secularisation. When charismatic authority turned traditional, that was a form of enchanted sacred society. However, with modernity came secularisation and tradition as authority turned into bureaucracy.
People now were selected to fill an office for which they were trained and capable, the decision about such promotion being rational. But this came at a cost: the tedious, repetitive, authoritarian nature of top-down bureaucracy. It was disenchanted. So, whereas Marx was ultimately an optimist, because the new communist time of plenty would come, Weber was a pessimist.
Now let's be clear that Weber today is not the end game, as there is dispersed expertise in corporations, being the specialisation of knowledge that competes with top-down bureaucracy. And there are organisations that use human relations authority. Nevertheless, the general point remains that secularisation means a stark, absence of sacred canopy, and the world works by scientific solutions using technology, or understanding natural processes.
This bleakness Slavoj Žižek uses is the sense of the death of God. It is, after all, a form of suffering. The crap nature that this is all there is has to be worked through. To the extent that we are postmoderns, then the modernity we have endured and still endure is important.
This is why he accuses John Milbank and his weird postmodern Radical Orthodox construction as pagan and too easily the death of the death of God. Being pagan means carrying on as if everything is harmonious, when the death of God is shattering in its implications (Milbank, Žižek, 2009, 249). In a postmodern space Milbank has generated a premodern platonist fantasy of Church as possessor of peace. It becomes the window to judge all else as comparatively false, such as sociology being secular theology. Nevertheless, Milbank's scheme is re-enchantment, even producing for him a joyful materialism (2009, 125).
This is junk, of course, given that sociology involves research and such research, whether regular (quantitative) or valid (qualitative), supports or undermines hypotheses. In contrast, I suggest, theology is based on nothing except invented premises and logical follow-throughs: theology steals from ethics, from anthropology and from social sciences. All too easily those in the theology world rewrite science and social science and don't realise that this is what they have done. A big God does not nudge evolution, which is always local and specific, and virgins do not give birth, and even salvation figures grow up making mistakes and have a limited cultural even tribal outlook.
Žižek attacks Milbank via his theologised philosophy. In turn Milbank, who regards Luther as a mistake, accuses Žižek of indulging in Protestantism as in a Hegelian dialectic. This Hegelian process ends up producing a Christianity-stripped universalism (a sort of Unitarianism, I might suggest) - a high but stark theism that is a paradox of Christianity. Yet this is also a point of transcendence, which is, for Milbank, a route to Catholicism - and Milbank wants to convert Žižek from his Whiggish Protestantism to the true (but, er, Anglican) Catholic realm. For Milbank, atheism is just a sub-plot of Protestantism (114). Perhaps they would agree that Žižek has a more gnostic view of evil, whereas Milbank declares that evil has no ontological status at all (196).
But Slavoj Žižek is being postmodern. He does not need to use any theology to get this point across. He could stick to philosophy and use social science. His postmodernism here is to use the Christian narrative. Of course this is a problem with liberal postmodernism - it is thin and optional. It is why I tend to drop it in favour of those higher Hegelian conclusions that actually stop at paradox (for which Buddhism offers a better model).
For the sake of his dialogue with a Christian, Žižek uses a liberal postmodern theology to tackle a conservative postmodernism. For me, the former has authenticity because it is rooted in what research shows us to be whereas the latter is a fantasy, like a Mediaeval castle built on the Rhine in the later nineteenth century.
Milbank invents his own apparent trinitarian modernity (192, 209), and this involves dodging around the Reformation. For Žižek, there is no transcendent caretaker (55) and, given that Christ is a weak God (55) there is nothing to lead on to the happy outcome of all things. Tough then - that God, as such, died on its own cross. Indeed it means more than this: that there was never a transcendent God (80). History is also tough, although not a process; however, surprise-surprise, Milbank thinks history is distorted too (like sociology) because it happened outside a proper Catholic aegis.
Milbank's scheme is like having Copernicus setting astronomy free, and it going on to develop the Hubble space telescope, only to have some theologian come along and say he is entitled to follow Ptolemy again and will rewrite science and social science in ignorance to suit.
In as far as Rowan Williams deals in the same closed narrative theological world, and gets lost in the detail as he goes back and forth, the same can be said of his scheme too, though usually Williams makes excursions into the actual economy for his pronouncements. Williams also makes great efforts in preserving and advancing his model of the Church, especially internationally, but he does it following modernist bureaucratic methods (discussion, rationality, process of people in their rightful position) rather than a reinvented platonic traditionalism, which would really become hierarchical statements of premodern repression (there is, after all, no basis by which to judge Milbank's Church of peace other than according to the Church).
Slavoj Žižek says you have to run with disenchantment (247) because it is the honest approach. It is the absence of the Real transcendent, and is the acceptance of the void; these two sides of the same coin let us examine ourselves - however painful this may be. Clearly people will use religion - whether elements of Milbank's, or Buddhism, or the New Age - to soften the blow.
Milbank, J., Žižek, S. (2009), Davis, C. (ed.), The Monstrosity of Christ: Paradox or Dialectic? Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press.
Source (http://pluralistspeaks.blogspot.com/2010/12/liberal-versus-conservative-postmodern.html)
Keigoed, en da's gemeend. :lole:
De Weberiaanse lofzang op Calvinistische bureaucratie wordt door Slavoj aangevochten in The Monstrosity of Christ (goed recensie in post hiervoor).
In commentaar in The Guardian op Noorwegen (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/anders-behring-breivik-pim-fortuyn) geeft Slavoj aan dat Joden zich beroemen op het uitvinden van de multiculturalisme aan het begin van de vorige eeuw.
Dat is me nogal wat. Want religie wordt door joden zelf tot cultuur gemaakt. Bovendien stappen de joden aan het begin van de vorige eeuw in een raamwerk van multiculturalismes wat een samenspel is van zogeheten zuilen.
Een zuilenstructuur die nog steeds bestaat en als het even kan door (financieel) belanghebbenden nieuw leven in geblazen gaat worden.
Nice talking to u again , buddy , where have u been ?
Visiting family and neighbours.
I must admit i wanna talk just to u in this forum really haha , not to anyone else except to rbn, Eke ...., the rest are boring , uninteresting ...
Pizzaman agrees with Calvinism as the mother of all bureacracy:
Israel’s Kafkaesque bureaucracy colonizes the occupied West Bank one settlement at a time.
By Slavoj Žižek: Making the Illegal Legal -- In These Times (http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/4880/making_the_illegal_legal/)
I did take a look at "The Christ monstrosity " : some philosophical parts of it are too difficult for me i try to comprehend , in vain, i must admit , but i am getting there : slow but sure like the british say
understatement , islam as not only individual collective, material spiritual but also political economic , social, juridcial....as u know
A readable summary of The Montrosity of Christ in post #71 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4808452-post71.html).
The Paulinian denouncing, of any Law from the Bible, Žižek sketches on p.23-53
Also descibing the Trinity without Incarnation :hihi:
A hard part at the end of The plagues of Fantasies:
"… [a]fter indicating the contours of this concept [which would fully register our constitutive finitude), Kant
quickly withdraws and offers another, supplementary concept in exchange, a concept which already ‘pacifies’
the unbearable dimension of the first one: the Sublime (instead of the Monstrous) [in the Critique
of Judgement; radical evil (instead of ‘diabolical evil) [in the texts on practical reason]…" [I]Plague
of Fantasies, p. 227)
Žižek and the Subject of Kantian Apperception and more further explained can be found in document 211.pdf on International Journal of Zizek Studies (http://www.zizekstudies.org)
Apperception:
Conclusions of thinking (i.e. critical thinking).
Purpose is to acquire knowledge of reality.
Apperceptions become perceptions often at levels
beyond sense perception.(Ibn Khaldun)
That sounds too simplistic , we can also extend that logic to muslims = too unnuanced = self-sacrifice , altruism ....make part of the human nature , the right belief just gives the proper look & stimulus to that = there are causes worth dying for : islam for example as THE cause of all causes , not like what those suicide bombers did/do, no , but in the true Jihad way
The other half truth is the orginazation of Christianity as Caesar/August worshipping.
If you disgree there is a way out (collective suicide).
well, thanks to paulus mainly
<...>
The Bible is a fraud indeed
It mirrors the ability of every man or woman to be as fraudelent as Paul :maf:?
Harts intelligentie
23-08-11, 20:00
De Weberiaanse lofzang op Calvinistische bureaucratie wordt door Slavoj aangevochten in The Monstrosity of Christ (goed recensie in post hiervoor).
In commentaar in The Guardian op Noorwegen (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/anders-behring-breivik-pim-fortuyn) geeft Slavoj aan dat Joden zich beroemen op het uitvinden van de multiculturalisme aan het begin van de vorige eeuw.
Dat is me nogal wat. Want religie wordt door joden zelf tot cultuur gemaakt. Bovendien stappen de joden aan het begin van de vorige eeuw in een raamwerk van multiculturalismes wat een samenspel is van zogeheten zuilen.
Een zuilenstructuur die nog steeds bestaat en als het even kan door (financieel) belanghebbenden nieuw leven in geblazen gaat worden.
wat Slavoj zei over joden als de zgn uitvinders van muliticulturalisme , come on haha ,das te tragi-hilarisch paradoxaal
zie hoe het jodendom zo exclusief racistisch is , een religie van "het uitverkoren volk " \
P>S.: fact is ; the first succesfull multicultural societies ever were realised under islam
see how multiculturalism is a total failure under liberal democracy , the latter as a form of monoculturalism = a form of fascism
Harts intelligentie
24-08-11, 00:35
A readable summary of The Montrosity of Christ in post #71 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4808452-post71.html).
Looks a bit unreadable to me , why don't they try to use some simple language like science does for example instead of those vodoo fetishistic pretentious words ?
Jesus had nothing to do with christianity once again, i must add , was neither crucified nor killed but was just confused with somebodyelse who was crucified in his place
Jesus was just a jewish prophet human sent to jews only by Allah , Jesus we believe in, respect , love ...as we do in relation to all prophets from Adam to Mohammed = almost all were sent to their own peoples only by Allah as the one & only God & creator of all things & beings , except Mohammed who was sent by Allah to all humankind, & even to...jinns by the way
islam as the last testatement that had not only completed & confirmed all previous tawhied messages of all previous prophets but had also replaced them , end story
christianity existed therefore only in the head of that criminal fraud paulus & in those of the other bible writers = Zizek was just wasting his time on the matter
The Paulinian denouncing, of any Law from the Bible, Žižek sketches on p.23-53
Also descibing the Trinity without Incarnation :hihi:
see above
A hard part at the end of The plagues of Fantasies:
[QUOTE]"… [a]fter indicating the contours of this concept [which would fully register our constitutive finitude), Kantquickly withdraws and offers another, supplementary concept in exchange, a concept which already ‘pacifies’
the unbearable dimension of the first one: the Sublime (instead of the Monstrous) [in the Critique
of Judgement; radical evil (instead of ‘diabolical evil) [in the texts on practical reason]…" [I]Plague
of Fantasies, p. 227)
Žižek and the Subject of Kantian Apperception and more further explained can be found in document 211.pdf on International Journal of Zizek Studies (http://www.zizekstudies.org)
see above
western philo defines itself in relation to that dead fraud = christianity = in relation to a sand castle , in relation to an illusion, to a non-issue
Apperception:
Conclusions of thinking (i.e. critical thinking).
Purpose is to acquire knowledge of reality.
Apperceptions become perceptions often at levels
beyond sense perception.(Ibn Khaldun)
How can a marxist like urself be a believer at the same time = makes no sense = an understatement
The other half truth is the orginazation of Christianity as Caesar/August worshipping.
If you disgree there is a way out (collective suicide).
an illusion fraud , non-issue , a fabrication ...as christianity is can only lead to nihillism or collective suicide at the end of the line : see those previous litteral christian collective suicides before the west decided to focuss on islam as THE enemy after the fall of communism & after the fabricated 9/11
It mirrors the ability of every man or woman to be as fraudelent as Paul :maf:?
Fraud as honesty , integrity ...make part of the human nature
[quote]
an illusion fraud , non-issue , a fabrication ...as christianity is can only lead to nihillism or collective suicide at the end of the line :
Nou, zelfmoord ligt eerder in de lijn van de islam ligt dan van het christendom, zoals we regelmatig hebben kunnen zien.
Harts intelligentie
24-08-11, 01:22
[quote=Harts intelligentie;4809946]
Nou, zelfmoord ligt eerder in de lijn van de islam ligt dan van het christendom, zoals we regelmatig hebben kunnen zien.
echt jihad heeft niets te maken met zelfmoord , integendeel zelfs , maar dat staat boven je pet , dus , geen zin om het aan je uit te leggen
[quote=Slinger;4810016]
echt jihad heeft niets te maken met zelfmoord , integendeel zelfs , maar dat staat boven je pet , dus , geen zin om het aan je uit te leggen
Nou, dan zal het wel onechte jihad zijn. Maar als jij het christendom met zelfmoordaanslagen in verbinding brengt, moet je wel een flink vuiltje in je oog hebben als je de islamitische praktijk niet ziet.
U gotta be kidding me , how ? what 's so interesting about Sadra ?
Khaldunic-Sadrian paradigma and the congruency with Hegel, Husserl and Heidegger.
u told me once that freud is only interesting to u in relation to Marx , why ?
The Freudian inclination implies the (eventually) Big Other is both the the healing dealer of the opium and the threatening father, who however if uses violence will be "castrated" (by himself) .
do u think he might have time enough to answer potential mails ?
There is enough information on this forum, even overwhelming.
wat Slavoj zei over joden als de zgn uitvinders van muliticulturalisme , come on haha ,das te tragi-hilarisch paradoxaal
zie hoe het jodendom zo exclusief racistisch is , een religie van "het uitverkoren volk " \
P>S.: fact is ; the first succesfull multicultural societies ever were realised under islam
see how multiculturalism is a total failure under liberal democracy , the latter as a form of monoculturalism = a form of fascism
Jewish multiculturalism is just another stage in culturization of religion which is the liberal solution for smoothen out religious differences within the European political framework.
Neoliberalism adapted multiculturalism:
Today's multiculturalist ideology provides an exemplary case
of the falsity of a direct universalist position: multiculturalism is
clearly disavowed, inverted, form of racism, a "racism with a
distance"- it's respect the Other's identity, conceiving the Other as a
self-closed authentic community toward which the multucultural-
ist maintains a distance rendered possible by his or her privileged
universal position. In other words, multiculturalism is a racism that
empties its own position of all positive content (the multiculturalis
is not a direct racist, he or she does not oppose to the Other the
particular values of his own culture), but nonetheless retains this
position as the priviliged empty point of universally from which one
is able to appreciate properly other particular cultures - the multi_
culturalists respect for the Other's specificity is the very form of as-
serting one' s own superiority.
p. 96 The Abyss of Freedom (1997)
Jewish multiculturalism is just another stage in culturization of religion which is the liberal solution for smoothen out religious differences within the European political framework.
Neoliberalism adapted multiculturalism:
Today's multiculturalist ideology provides an exemplary case
of the falsity of a direct universalist position: multiculturalism is
clearly disavowed, inverted, form of racism, a "racism with a
distance"- it's respect the Other's identity, conceiving the Other as a
self-closed authentic community toward which the multucultural-
ist maintains a distance rendered possible by his or her privileged
universal position. In other words, multiculturalism is a racism that
empties its own position of all positive content (the multiculturalis
is not a direct racist, he or she does not oppose to the Other the
particular values of his own culture), but nonetheless retains this
position as the priviliged empty point of universally from which one
is able to appreciate properly other particular cultures - the multi_
culturalists respect for the Other's specificity is the very form of as-
serting one' s own superiority.
p. 96 The Abyss of Freedom (1997)
Daar zit wat in.
Looks a bit unreadable to me , why don't they try to use some simple language like science does for example instead of those vodoo fetishistic pretentious words ?
Jesus had nothing to do with christianity once again, i must add , was neither crucified nor killed but was just confused with somebodyelse who was crucified in his place
Theologian John Milbank's fetishes are only his concerns. The same with new atheist Sam Harris his fetishes.
The focus (Žižek), however, in post #71 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4808452-post71.html).
is on Calvinistic/secular bureaucracy (obstructing socio-economical development):
Jesus was just a jewish prophet human sent to jews only by Allah , Jesus we believe in, respect , love ...as we do in relation to all prophets from Adam to Mohammed = almost all were sent to their own peoples only by Allah as the one & only God & creator of all things & beings , except Mohammed who was sent by Allah to all humankind, & even to...jinns by the way
islam as the last testatement that had not only completed & confirmed all previous tawhied messages of all previous prophets but had also replaced them , end story
christianity existed therefore only in the head of that criminal fraud paulus & in those of the other bible writers = Zizek was just wasting his time on the matter
Paul's letters can be seen as Christian version of incoherence of .
After Paul the Bible has become definitely incoherent.
What the Bible is really about Slavoj describes in a few pages (p.23-35 The Monstrosity of Christ.
How can a marxist like urself be a believer at the same time = makes no sense = an understatement
I'm way too expensive for Marxism:
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(Click on the arrows; Larger size (https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx/powerpoint/Bloom.pptx?cid=be9766fa884da12c&sc=documents)))
Harts intelligentie
24-08-11, 23:57
Jewish multiculturalism is just another stage in culturization of religion which is the liberal solution for smoothen out religious differences within the European political framework.
Neoliberalism adapted multiculturalism:
what has that to do with judaism as a culture then ?
racist exclusive intolerant discriminatory ....judaism that was forced to 'accept " a phony form of multiculturalism under neo-liberalist domination , as was the case with that extremely intolerant inquisitory discriminatory superstitious antisemistic ...christianity after the protestant reformation
it 's like saying that communists, marxists, socialists ...could be liberal democratic haha as an intrinsic prestation of theirs = a paradox
Today's multiculturalist ideology provides an exemplary case
of the falsity of a direct universalist position: multiculturalism is
clearly disavowed, inverted, form of racism, a "racism with a
distance"- it's respect the Other's identity, conceiving the Other as a
self-closed authentic community toward which the multucultural-
ist maintains a distance rendered possible by his or her privileged
universal position. In other words, multiculturalism is a racism that
empties its own position of all positive content (the multiculturalis
is not a direct racist, he or she does not oppose to the Other the
particular values of his own culture), but nonetheless retains this
position as the priviliged empty point of universally from which one
is able to appreciate properly other particular cultures - the multi_
culturalists respect for the Other's specificity is the very form of as-
[QUOTE]serting one' s own superiority.p. 96 The Abyss of Freedom (1997)
That's what i was saying :
multiculturalism as such does not exist under liberal democracy , the latter as a predominant form of monoculturalism in relation to the other cultures= a form of fascism even
liberal democracy as an idea, an ideal that could not be really realised on the reality ground = an utopia , as was christianity by the way
Harts intelligentie
25-08-11, 00:18
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4810321]Theologian John Milbank's fetishes are only his concerns. The same with new atheist Sam Harris his fetishes.
The focus (Žižek), however, in post #71 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4808452-post71.html).
is on Calvinistic/secular bureaucracy (obstructing socio-economical development):
there is a lots of subjective stuff in what those guys , false prophets , have been saying as the case is with most of modern philo , except the analytical philo as a bit less subjective while cultural ideological historic factors do play their roles in them all
I prefer science above that subjective egocentric unpractical speculative interpretative philo vodoo stuff , science without ideological materialism haha
Besides : u know as well as i do that objectivity does not exist , not even at the level of exact sciences , let alone elsewhere
what does all this vodoo philo stuff means to u in ur life , practically , by the way ?
I see not much practical use of it = mostly just a speculative waste of time , with all due respect , i am a practical guy mostly , so
Paul's letters can be seen as Christian version of incoherence of .
After Paul the Bible has become definitely incoherent.
What the Bible is really about Slavoj describes in a few pages (p.23-35 The Monstrosity of Christ.
Paul is a history fraud =a non-issue
by the way ;
I think that Slavoj must show some respect to Jesus , the latter that had nothing to do with christianity once again, Jesus we believe in, respect , love ...
I'm way too expensive for Marxism:
what do u mean ?
How can u combine all that marxist materialistic vodoo with religious belief ?
come on, be serious , & just try to come out of the closet , to use ur beloved Freudian sexual stuff
how can one revive freud's psychology by the way that was dead for the most part , psychology that reduce all human behaviour to sexual drive ....ridiculous unnuanced & disgusting view of human behaviour , drives + too simplistic materialistic reductionistic
Thanks by the way for all the stuff i downloaded
does not matter much that those audios-videos of Lacan + some of his seminars, parts of books were of bad quality u warned me about before hand
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(Click on the arrows; Larger size (https://skydrive.live.com/view.aspx/powerpoint/Bloom.pptx?cid=be9766fa884da12c&sc=documents)))
will make time for that
Slavoj is not really very credible in relation to capitalism for example , let alone in relation to religion, , even though he does say some true things on the matter
he's driven mainly by his marxist ideology , not by the truth , so
Harts intelligentie
25-08-11, 00:30
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4810306]Khaldunic-Sadrian paradigma and the congruency with Hegel, husserl and Heidegger.
u accused me once via one of ur other nicks = Munier that i was shopping selectively when it comes to human thought ....i told u i do try to function within the belief islamic paradigms , islam as the one & only true objective neutral universal belief , but those accusations of urs sound to me now like ur self-projections = u are the one selectively shopping using Ibn Khaldun , Sadra & others according to ur ideological lenses optics , u are driven by ideology , not by the truth as Slavoj is , as most western thinkers are /were ..
The Freudian inclination implies the (eventually) Big Other is both the the healing dealer of the opium and the threatening father, who however if uses violence will be "castrated" (by himself) .
Ik heb wel een groot hekel aan freud , al zou zijn sychologie wel beschikken over bepaalde elementen van waarheid
psychologie als een pseudo-wetenschap zonder echt wetenschappelijk basis
There is enough information on this forum, even overwhelming.
I think there is a lots of desinformation in this forum & in the rest of this world, a lots of ideology, propaganda , lies, make -believe ..........even exact sciences & human sciences themselves are dominated by materialism as an ideology for centuries now , so = what a phony ideological make -believe modern world = too much information is no guarantee for the truth in this information age ...
information is no synonymous of ...knowledge , wisdom , truth ...
what has that to do with judaism as a culture then ?
racist exclusive intolerant discriminatory ....judaism that was forced to 'accept " a phony form of multiculturalism under neo-liberalist domination , as was the case with that extremely intolerant inquisitory discriminatory superstitious antisemistic ...christianity after the protestant reformation
The leaders of the Jewish community had, just like the leaders of other religion communities, their religion reduced to a subculture.
Who's profiting of this move?
Jewish leadership and in general religious leadership. (A sell out of principles)
And the Islam in Europe was destined to be imprisoned in the same construction.
So Tariq Ramadan's 'Islam is not a culture but a religion' is a frontal attack on multiculturalism in which there is no difference between religion and culture.
it 's like saying that communists, marxists, socialists ...could be liberal democratic haha as an intrinsic prestation of theirs = a paradox
In fact political ideology doesn't matter. Žižek calls this paradox a characteristic of the liberal communist.
Whether you are the president of North Korea or the CEO of a multinational you are a liberal communist. And the cultural superiority has Northwest-European protestant as its idol (Fukuyama!).
Northwest-european protestantism that on first sight ressembles sunnism :haha:
Excellent article: Thought Leader » Bert Olivier » What is a liberal communist? (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/bertolivier/2011/01/01/what-is-a-liberal-communist/)
That's what i was saying :
multiculturalism as such does not exist under liberal democracy , the latter as a predominant form of monoculturalism in relation to the other cultures= a form of fascism even
liberal democracy as an idea, an ideal that could not be really realised on the reality ground = an utopia , as was christianity by the way
Multiculturalism in which culture emulges religion is indeed non-existent and impossible.
However , multiculturalism is the liberal solution for religious differences.
Facilitating the differences to be experienced (c.q. cherishing individualism) costs a lot of money (it's by the way also bureaucracy).
The only reason for the neoliberals to get rid of multiculturalism is that it had became too expensive.
But the designated be post-multiculturalism still remains multiculturalism falling back to 19th century class-societies.
there is a lots of subjective stuff in what those guys , false prophets , have been saying as the case is with most of modern philo , except the analytical philo as a bit less subjective while cultural ideological historic factors do play their roles in them all
I prefer science above that subjective egocentric unpractical speculative interpretative philo vodoo stuff , science without ideological materialism haha
Besides : u know as well as i do that objectivity does not exist , not even at the level of exact sciences , let alone elsewhere
what does all this vodoo philo stuff means to u in ur life , practically , by the way ?
I see not much practical use of it = mostly just a speculative waste of time , with all due respect , i am a practical guy mostly , so
All that voodoo stuff meant to prevent you from getting the economical facts straght(exploitation, modern slavery).
Christian (i.c. Milbank) and atheďst (i.c. Harris) are here tot distract you from even starting to clean up the mess.
Milbank is depicted as an blasfemist and Harris as an religious fanatic in a short manner. Makes it much easier.
.
Paul is a history fraud =a non-issue
Plotine (Aritstotel is also a non-issue.
Anders Breivik is reponsible for his acts.
I think that Slavoj must show some respect to Jesus , the latter that had nothing to do with christianity once again, Jesus we believe in, respect , love ...
Jesus explains: Only an Atheist can be a Christian.
How can u combine all that marxist materialistic vodoo with religious belief ?
come on, be serious , & just try to come out of the closet , to use ur beloved Freudian sexual stuff
how can one revive freud's psychology by the way that was dead for the most part , psychology that reduce all human behaviour to sexual drive ....ridiculous unnuanced & disgusting view of human behaviour , drives + too simplistic materialistic reductionistic
The Freudian sex drive exists. But the addition for instance made by John Gray is that there is also a religious drive that is in every human being.
Very interesting is that some atheist are living in the myth that there is battle between sex drive (good) and religious drive (evil).
So Freud has made his contributions in analyzing this utterances of intolerance and fear.
Being disappointed in Judaism, he pictured in his Moses and Monotheism how Prophet Moses was reduced to a teacher of henotheism.
Some knowledge of Freud is neccesary since there is Freudian ammunition:
Sam Harris:
"I don’t think I have ever met anyone so determined to live as a Freudian case study: To read any page of Hedges’ is to witness the full catastrophe of public self-deception.
http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4784371-post9.html
Jewish multiculturalism is just another stage in culturization of religion which is the liberal solution for smoothen out religious differences within the European political framework.
Neoliberalism adapted multiculturalism:
Today's multiculturalist ideology provides an exemplary case
of the falsity of a direct universalist position: multiculturalism is
clearly disavowed, inverted, form of racism, a "racism with a
distance"- it's respect the Other's identity, conceiving the Other as a
self-closed authentic community toward which the multucultural-
ist maintains a distance rendered possible by his or her privileged
universal position. In other words, multiculturalism is a racism that
empties its own position of all positive content (the multiculturalis
is not a direct racist, he or she does not oppose to the Other the
particular values of his own culture), but nonetheless retains this
position as the priviliged empty point of universally from which one
is able to appreciate properly other particular cultures - the multi_
culturalists respect for the Other's specificity is the very form of as-
serting one' s own superiority.
p. 96 The Abyss of Freedom (1997)
Jezus wat is dit voor schier onbegrijpelijk gewauwel in erbarmelijk Engels?
Multiculturalisme bestaat helemaal niet.
Daar zit wat in.
Kan jij dat even vertalen en samenvatten?
u accused me once via one of ur other nicks = Munier that i was shopping selectively when it comes to human thought ....i told u i do try to function within the belief islamic paradigms , islam as the one & only true objective neutral universal belief , but those accusations of urs sound to me now like ur self-projections = u are the one selectively shopping using Ibn Khaldun , Sadra & others according to ur ideological lenses optics , u are driven by ideology , not by the truth as Slavoj is , as most western thinkers are /were ..
Munier is not one of my nicks, Olive Yao neither.
The Khaldunic-Sadrian paradigma starts with reading the Qur'an as a cure for inner pain.
But what if a Muslim can't recognize himself in the Qur'an. Fleeing to Sufism?
Hegel, Husserl and Heidegger are considered to be very difficult. But if you see them as Sufi's they are much easier to understand.
Mainstream -> Ibn khaldun: Religious propaganda emerges (naturally) form group feeling.
Ik heb wel een groot hekel aan freud , al zou zijn sychologie wel beschikken over bepaalde elementen van waarheid
psychologie als een pseudo-wetenschap zonder echt wetenschappelijk basis
socialist critical thought must turn to psychoanalysis: http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4812267-post81.html
Kan jij dat even vertalen en samenvatten?
Wat ik ervan begrepen heb is dat je door een multiculturele houding in feite onverschillig staat tegenover vertegenwoordigers van een andere cultuur. Je vindt ze niet waardig genoeg om ze de goede dingen van je eigen cultuur bij te brengen.
Zoiets dus.
Jezus wat is dit voor schier onbegrijpelijk gewauwel in erbarmelijk Engels?
Multiculturalisme bestaat helemaal niet.
While this book is philosophical in its basic tenor, it is first and foremost
an engaged political intervention, addressing the burning question of how
we are to reformulate a leftist, anti-capitalist political project in our era of
global capitalism and its ideological supplement, liberal-democratic multiculturalism.
p. 4 The Ticklish Subject (1999)
Jezus wat is dit voor schier onbegrijpelijk gewauwel in erbarmelijk Engels?
„Zizek schwafelt. Ins Schwafeln gerät, wer eine Sache nicht auf den Punkt zu bringen vermag. […] Dass Zizek Argumentation simuliert, statt bloß beliebig Assoziationen aufzufädeln, was als Form doch dem Inhalt seines Buches angemessen wäre, scheint starre akademische Gewohnheit. Er ist ein Pedant des Wirren. Statt einfach zu spinnen, behängt er das Resultat solchen Tuns mit Fußnoten“.
Wat ik ervan begrepen heb is dat je door een multiculturele houding in feite onverschillig staat tegenover vertegenwoordigers van een andere cultuur. Je vindt ze niet waardig genoeg om ze de goede dingen van je eigen cultuur bij te brengen.
Zoiets dus.
From the standpoint of the post-Marxist anti-essentialist notion of
politics as the field of hegemonic struggle with no pre-estabIished rules
that would define its parameters in advance, it is easy to reject the very
notion of the 'Logic of Capital' as precisely the remainder of the old
essentialist stance: far from being reducible to an ideologico-cuItural effect
of the economic process, the passage from standard cultural imperialism
to the more tolerant multiculturalism with its openness towards the wealth
of hybrid ethnic, sexual, and so on, identities is the result of a long and
difficult politico-cultural struggle whose final outcome was in no way
guaranteed by the a priori co-ordinates of the 'logic of Capital' .... The
crucial point, however, is that this struggle for the politicization and
assertion of multiple ethnic, sexual, and other identities always took place
against the background of an invisible yet all the more forbidding barrier:
the global capitalist system was able to incorporate the gains of the
postmodern politics of identities to the extent that they did not disturb
the smooth circulation of Capital - the moment some political intervention
poses a serious threat to that, an elaborate set of exclusionary
measures quashes it.
What about the rather obvious counter-argument that the multiculturalist's
neutrality is false, since his or her position silently privileges
Eurocentrist content? This line of reasoning is right, but for the wrong
reason. The particular cultural background or roots which always support
the universal multiculturalist position are not its 'truth', hidden beneath
the mask of universality ('multiculturalist universalism is really Eurocentrist
.. .') but, rather, the opposite: the stain of particular roots is the
phantasmic screen which conceals the fact that the subject is already
thoroughly 'rootless', that his true position is the void of universality.
<...>
The falsitv of elitist multiculturalist liberalism lies in the tension
between content and form which already characterized the first great
ideological project of tolerant universalism, that of Freemasonry: the
doctrine of Freemasonry: (the universal brotherhood of all men based on
the light of Reason) clearly clashes with its form of expression and
organization (a secret society with its initiation rituals); that is, it is the
very form of expression and articulation of Freemasonry which belies its
positive doctrine, In a strictly homologous way, the contemporary 'politi-
cal correct' liberal attitude which perceives itself as surpassing the
limitations of its ethnic identity ('citizen of the world' without anchors in
any' particular ethnic community) functions, within its own society, as a
narrow elitist upper-middle-class circle c1early opposing itself to the
majority of common people, despised for being caught in their narrow
ethnic or community confines.
<...>
Does this mean that the solution lies in acknowledging the 'hybrid'
character of each identity? It is easy to praise the hybridity of the
postmodern migrant subject, no longer attached to specific ethnic roots,
floating freely between different cultural circles. Unfortunately, two totally
different sociopolitical levels are condensed here: on the one hand the
cosmopolitan upper- and upper-middle-class academic, always with the
proper visas enabling him to cross borders without any problem in order
to carry out his (financial, academic ... ) business, and thus able to 'enjoy
the difference'; on the other hand the poor (im)migrant worker driven
from his home by poverty or (ethnic, religious) violence, for whom the
celebrated 'hybridity' designates a very tangible traumatic experience of
never being able to settle down properly and legalize his status, the subject
for whom such simple tasks as crossing a border or reuniting with his
family can be an experience full of anxiety, and demanding great effort.
For this second subject, being uprooted from his traditional way of life is
a traumatic shock which destabilizes his entire existence - to tell him that
he should enjoy the hybridity and the lack of fixed identity of his daily
life, the fact that his existence is migrant, never identical-to-itself, and so
on, involves the same cynicism as that at work in the (popularized version
of) Deleuze and Guattari's celebration of the schizo-subject whose rhizo-
matic pulverized existence explodes the paranoiac 'proto-Fascist' protective
shield of fixed identity: what is, for the concerned subject, an
experience of the utmost sutfering and despair, the stigma of exclusion,
of being unable to participate in the affairs of his community, is - from
the point of view of the external and well, 'normal', and fully adapted
postmodern theoretician - celebrated as the ultimate assertion of the
subversive desiring machine ....
p. 216-221 The Ticklish Subject
From the standpoint of the post-Marxist anti-essentialist notion of
politics as the field of hegemonic struggle with no pre-estabIished rules
that would define its parameters in advance, it is easy to reject the very
notion of the 'Logic of Capital' as precisely the remainder of the old
essentialist stance: far from being reducible to an ideologico-cuItural effect
of the economic process, the passage from standard cultural imperialism
to the more tolerant multiculturalism with its openness towards the wealth
of hybrid ethnic, sexual, and so on, identities is the result of a long and
difficult politico-cultural struggle whose final outcome was in no way
guaranteed by the a priori co-ordinates of the 'logic of Capital' .... The
crucial point, however, is that this struggle for the politicization and
assertion of multiple ethnic, sexual, and other identities always took place
against the background of an invisible yet all the more forbidding barrier:
the global capitalist system was able to incorporate the gains of the
postmodern politics of identities to the extent that they did not disturb
the smooth circulation of Capital - the moment some political intervention
poses a serious threat to that, an elaborate set of exclusionary
measures quashes it.
What about the rather obvious counter-argument that the multiculturalist's
neutrality is false, since his or her position silently privileges
Eurocentrist content? This line of reasoning is right, but for the wrong
reason. The particular cultural background or roots which always support
the universal multiculturalist position are not its 'truth', hidden beneath
the mask of universality ('multiculturalist universalism is really Eurocentrist
.. .') but, rather, the opposite: the stain of particular roots is the
phantasmic screen which conceals the fact that the subject is already
thoroughly 'rootless', that his true position is the void of universality.
<...>
The falsitv of elitist multiculturalist liberalism lies in the tension
between content and form which already characterized the first great
ideological project of tolerant universalism, that of Freemasonry: the
doctrine of Freemasonry: (the universal brotherhood of all men based on
the light of Reason) clearly clashes with its form of expression and
organization (a secret society with its initiation rituals); that is, it is the
very form of expression and articulation of Freemasonry which belies its
positive doctrine, In a strictly homologous way, the contemporary 'politi-
cal correct' liberal attitude which perceives itself as surpassing the
limitations of its ethnic identity ('citizen of the world' without anchors in
any' particular ethnic community) functions, within its own society, as a
narrow elitist upper-middle-class circle c1early opposing itself to the
majority of common people, despised for being caught in their narrow
ethnic or community confines.
<...>
Does this mean that the solution lies in acknowledging the 'hybrid'
character of each identity? It is easy to praise the hybridity of the
postmodern migrant subject, no longer attached to specific ethnic roots,
floating freely between different cultural circles. Unfortunately, two totally
different sociopolitical levels are condensed here: on the one hand the
cosmopolitan upper- and upper-middle-class academic, always with the
proper visas enabling him to cross borders without any problem in order
to carry out his (financial, academic ... ) business, and thus able to 'enjoy
the difference'; on the other hand the poor (im)migrant worker driven
from his home by poverty or (ethnic, religious) violence, for whom the
celebrated 'hybridity' designates a very tangible traumatic experience of
never being able to settle down properly and legalize his status, the subject
for whom such simple tasks as crossing a border or reuniting with his
family can be an experience full of anxiety, and demanding great effort.
For this second subject, being uprooted from his traditional way of life is
a traumatic shock which destabilizes his entire existence - to tell him that
he should enjoy the hybridity and the lack of fixed identity of his daily
life, the fact that his existence is migrant, never identical-to-itself, and so
on, involves the same cynicism as that at work in the (popularized version
of) Deleuze and Guattari's celebration of the schizo-subject whose rhizo-
matic pulverized existence explodes the paranoiac 'proto-Fascist' protective
shield of fixed identity: what is, for the concerned subject, an
experience of the utmost sutfering and despair, the stigma of exclusion,
of being unable to participate in the affairs of his community, is - from
the point of view of the external and well, 'normal', and fully adapted
postmodern theoretician - celebrated as the ultimate assertion of the
subversive desiring machine ....
p. 216-221 The Ticklish Subject
We weten wel dat je liever plakt dan zelf een begrijpelijke tekst te produceren. We weten ook waarom.
We weten wel dat je liever plakt dan zelf een begrijpelijke tekst te produceren. We weten ook waarom.
Lacan: From Hermeneutics to the Cause
Lacan 's opening gesture consisted of an unconditional espousal of
hermeneutics: as early as his doctorial thesis from 1933, and especially in
the Discours de Rome, he opposes determinism in the name of (psychoanalysis
as) a hermeneutical approach: 'All analytic experience is an
experience of signification. Here originates the great Lacanian motif of
the futur antérieur of symbolization: a fact counts not as factum brutum, but
only as it is always-already historicized. (What is at stake in the anal stage,
for example, is not excretion as such but how the child makes sense of
it: as a submission to the Other's - parent's - demand, as a triumph of
his control, etc. ) . This Lacan can easily be translated into the later
problematic of anti-psychiatry or existential psychoanalysis: Freudian
clinical designations (hysteria, obsessional neurosis, perversion, etc.) are
not 'objective ' classifications stigmatizing the patient; instead, they aim
at subjective attitudes, ' existential projects' , which have grown out of the
subject' s concrete intersubjective situation and for which the subject, in
his freedom, is ultimately responsible.
As early as the mid-1950s, however, this hermeneutical attitude was
undermined by a worm of doubt. At the very least, the fact remains that
Freud unambiguously resisted reducing psychoanalysis to hermeneutics:
his interpretation of dreams took shape through his break with the
traditional inquiry into their meaning. This resistance of Freud, his
persistent quest for a cause (in trauma) , cannot be dismissed as a
naturalist-determinist prejudice. Likewise, Lacan 's similar shift away
from hermeneutics involves no regression into naturalism but, rather,
renders visible the ' ex-timate' , inherent decentrement of the field of
signification - that is, the Cause at work in the midst of this very field.
This shift occurs in two steps. First, Lacan embraces structuralism: the
decentred cause of signification is identified as the signifying structure.
What is at stake in this first shift from hermeneutics to structuralism,
therefore, is precisely the question of cause. As we move from signification
to its cause, signification is conceived of as the effect-of-sense : it is the
imaginary experience-of-meaning whose inherent constituent is the
misrecognition of its determining cause, the formal mechanism of the
signifying structure itself.
This shift from signification to the signifying cause (correlative to the
notion of signification as an effect) does not reduce signification to a
product of positive determinism - that is to say, this is not a step from
hermeneutics to natural sciences. What forestalls this reduction is the
gap that separates the Symbolic from the Real. Thus, Lacan 's next step
involves precisely the insight into how this gap between the Real and the
Symbolic affects the symbolic order itself: it functions as the inherent limitation
of this order. The symbolic order is ' barred ' , the signifying chain is
inherently inconsistent, 'non-all', structured around a hole. This inherent
non-symbolizable reef maintains the gap between the Symbolic and
the Real - that is, it prevents the Symbolic from ' falling into' the Real and,
again , what is ultimately at stake in this decentrement of the Real
with r egard to the Symbolic is the Cause: the Real is the absent Cause of
the Symbolic. The Freudian and Lacanian name for this cause is, of
course , trauma.
p. 29-30 The Metastases of Enjoyment (1994)
Lacan: From Hermeneutics to the Cause
Lacan 's opening gesture consisted of an unconditional espousal of
hermeneutics: as early as his doctorial thesis from 1933, and especially in
the Discours de Rome, he opposes determinism in the name of (psychoanalysis
as) a hermeneutical approach: 'All analytic experience is an
experience of signification. Here originates the great Lacanian motif of
the futur antérieur of symbolization: a fact counts not as factum brutum, but
only as it is always-already historicized. (What is at stake in the anal stage,
for example, is not excretion as such but how the child makes sense of
it: as a submission to the Other's - parent's - demand, as a triumph of
his control, etc. ) . This Lacan can easily be translated into the later
problematic of anti-psychiatry or existential psychoanalysis: Freudian
clinical designations (hysteria, obsessional neurosis, perversion, etc.) are
not 'objective ' classifications stigmatizing the patient; instead, they aim
at subjective attitudes, ' existential projects' , which have grown out of the
subject' s concrete intersubjective situation and for which the subject, in
his freedom, is ultimately responsible.
As early as the mid-1950s, however, this hermeneutical attitude was
undermined by a worm of doubt. At the very least, the fact remains that
Freud unambiguously resisted reducing psychoanalysis to hermeneutics:
his interpretation of dreams took shape through his break with the
traditional inquiry into their meaning. This resistance of Freud, his
persistent quest for a cause (in trauma) , cannot be dismissed as a
naturalist-determinist prejudice. Likewise, Lacan 's similar shift away
from hermeneutics involves no regression into naturalism but, rather,
renders visible the ' ex-timate' , inherent decentrement of the field of
signification - that is, the Cause at work in the midst of this very field.
This shift occurs in two steps. First, Lacan embraces structuralism: the
decentred cause of signification is identified as the signifying structure.
What is at stake in this first shift from hermeneutics to structuralism,
therefore, is precisely the question of cause. As we move from signification
to its cause, signification is conceived of as the effect-of-sense : it is the
imaginary experience-of-meaning whose inherent constituent is the
misrecognition of its determining cause, the formal mechanism of the
signifying structure itself.
This shift from signification to the signifying cause (correlative to the
notion of signification as an effect) does not reduce signification to a
product of positive determinism - that is to say, this is not a step from
hermeneutics to natural sciences. What forestalls this reduction is the
gap that separates the Symbolic from the Real. Thus, Lacan 's next step
involves precisely the insight into how this gap between the Real and the
Symbolic affects the symbolic order itself: it functions as the inherent limitation
of this order. The symbolic order is ' barred ' , the signifying chain is
inherently inconsistent, 'non-all', structured around a hole. This inherent
non-symbolizable reef maintains the gap between the Symbolic and
the Real - that is, it prevents the Symbolic from ' falling into' the Real and,
again , what is ultimately at stake in this decentrement of the Real
with r egard to the Symbolic is the Cause: the Real is the absent Cause of
the Symbolic. The Freudian and Lacanian name for this cause is, of
course , trauma.
p. 29-30 The Metastases of Enjoyment (1994)
Ik voel met je mee. Kun je ook zeggen waardoor je trauma werd veroorzaakt?
Wat ik ervan begrepen heb is dat je door een multiculturele houding in feite onverschillig staat tegenover vertegenwoordigers van een andere cultuur. Je vindt ze niet waardig genoeg om ze de goede dingen van je eigen cultuur bij te brengen.
Zoiets dus.
Oh. Ik haal het er niet echt uit. Maar waarom kan hij dat niet net zo simpel vertellen als jij? En het dan door een native speaker laten nakijken?
En dat staat dan gelijk aan de 'valsheid van een directe universalitische positie' en dat is racistisch?
Echt, gewauwel van de bovenste plank.
„Zizek schwafelt. Ins Schwafeln gerät, wer eine Sache nicht auf den Punkt zu bringen vermag. […] Dass Zizek Argumentation simuliert, statt bloß beliebig Assoziationen aufzufädeln, was als Form doch dem Inhalt seines Buches angemessen wäre, scheint starre akademische Gewohnheit. Er ist ein Pedant des Wirren. Statt einfach zu spinnen, behängt er das Resultat solchen Tuns mit Fußnoten“.
:hihi: Haargenau. Wer sagt das?
While this book is philosophical in its basic tenor, it is first and foremost
an engaged political intervention, addressing the burning question of how
we are to reformulate a leftist, anti-capitalist political project in our era of
global capitalism and its ideological supplement, liberal-democratic multiculturalism.
p. 4 The Ticklish Subject (1999)
Dit vind je zinnig commentaar op mijn klacht? Meer knipplakgewauwel in beroerd Engels?
Als jij niet in staat bent dat gewauwel in je eigen woorden na te vertellen in het Nederlands ben je gewoon een inhoudsloze babbelfetisjist.
Je vindt het inhoudsloze gebabbel geweldig klinken. En zet er dan lappen van op pb.
Dit is gewoon je reinste vervuiling.
Oh. Ik haal het er niet echt uit. Maar waarom kan hij dat niet net zo simpel vertellen als jij? En het dan door een native speaker laten nakijken?
En dat staat dan gelijk aan de 'valsheid van een directe universalitische positie' en dat is racistisch?
Echt, gewauwel van de bovenste plank.
Ik denk dat het beneden zijn waardigheid is om iets duidelijk uit te leggen. Hij geniet er juist van dat mensen hem niet begrijpen.
Die Zizek zwatelt er ook maar op los. Ik zeg het niet te snel, want er bestaan grote filosofen die ik echt niet lezen kan omdat ik ze niet begrijp, maar van Zizek krijg ik toch wel het gevoel dat hij een meester in het wauwelen is.
:hihi: Haargenau. Wer sagt das?
Andreas Dorschel (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Dorschel)
Schopenhauer zei het nog korter:
Klarheit is das Geschäft der Philisophen.
Andreas Dorschel (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Dorschel)
Schopenhauer zei het nog korter:
Klarheit is das Geschäft der Philisophen.
Zo is dat, en daarom is hij mijn favoriete filosoof. Alles wat Schopenhauer schrijft kan ik helemaal begrijpen, zelfs in het Duits. Geldt ook voor het grootste deel voor Nietzsche.
Andreas Dorschel (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Dorschel)
Schopenhauer zei het nog korter:
Klarheit is das Geschäft der Philisophen.
Interessante man. Kende ik niet eens, shame on me.
Zizek:
2004 heiratete er das ehemalige argentinische Unterwäsche-Model Analia Hounie (damals 26 Jahre alt),
:hihi: De ouwe snoeperd. Ja, zo kan ik ook poststrukturalistisch wezen.
Unterwäsche-Model. Geweldig woord.
Dit vind je zinnig commentaar op mijn klacht?
De klacht dat mensen verschillende meningen (kunnen) hebben, kan ik niet verhelpen:
'multiculturalism is a racism' (Žižek, post #82 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4810309-post82.html))
Multiculturalisme bestaat helemaal niet. (mark61, post #90 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4812557-post90.html))
global capitalism and its ideological supplement, liberal-democratic multiculturalism. ((Žižek,post #96 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4812856-post96.html))
While this book is philosophical in its basic tenor, it is first and foremost
an engaged political intervention, addressing the burning question of how
we are to reformulate a leftist, anti-capitalist political project in our era of
global capitalism and its ideological supplement, liberal-democratic multiculturalism.
p. 4 The Ticklish Subject (1999)
Mobiel: http://www.maroc.nl/forums/media-beeldvorming/108119-talk-philosopher-slavoj-zizek.html
Wrapper: Forums | Maroc.NL (http://www.maroc.nl/index.php?jfile=showthread.php?t=108119&option=com_jfusion&Itemid=472)
addressing the burning question of how
we are to reformulate a leftist, anti-capitalist political project in our era of
global capitalism and its ideological supplement, liberal-democratic multiculturalism.
p. 4 The Ticklish Subject (1999)
Aha. Een soort post-mortem mond-op-mond beademing van de 'kritische theorie'.
Als ik er ook eens fris van de lever op los mag associëren.
Ah, eindelijk maakt het sence.
Harts intelligentie
26-08-11, 20:01
T.a.v. Black Box
I "fear " the Greeks even when they bring gifts haha
I have been reading "How to read lacan " , in 1 word : delight , to some extent at least
:
Harts intelligentie
27-08-11, 00:28
T.a.v.Black Box :
Has man got no imagination, no creativity , no innovation....is human knowledge an a-historic static thing that ....that man gotta try to revive the dead = Freudian psychoanalysis & marxism ? pathetic , even though , they both have some elements of the truth as all cultures, beliefs, thoughtstreams ...have by the way
I must admit i did enjoy "How to read lacan " enormously , that's somehow my kindda thing, , some parts of 'violence" , some others of "The plague of fantasies "...........sound more like literature to me, so, i think that art in general is more capable of addressing these human issues like no other , i love art in the broader sense , so :
So, i was delighted by "How to read Lacan " for example : awesome to some extent at least
reading the 'analysis " of the murderer of Gogh , i can only conclude as a result that one has tried to imprison a whole religion or "fundamentalism", the latter as a christian Eurocentric cultural label projection superego , in one single individual while it is a fact that the islamic experience of one muslim individual is unlike that of another muslim individual , even though , all muslims would per definition function within the islamic belief paradigms they seem to share with each other , in theory at least ....
in other words : while i see some truth in what i read , i can only feel disappointed by the ideological fundamental unnuanced materialistic reductionistic part of the whole thing that tries to reduce everything to a certain materialistic view of life , paradigms , in order to make the truth fit into those paradigms = truth at the service of ideology , not the other way around , unfortunately enough ...Zizek himself acting as our so-called superego that whispers things in our ears subtly , shaping our thought & behaviour in the process, while condemining superego or the big other , ironically enough = trying to replace the one by the other = by his = by Zizek's , "liberating " us from one slavery by enslaving us by Zizek's thought haha
Thanks once again for ur uploads , links, articles ....explanations , time , energy , patience , geneorisity ....i do appreciate :
some parts of ur stuff are delightful ,funny, sharp, deep, beautiful, inspiring , awesome , enlightening ...indeed
I enjoyed & will enjoy that while getting more convinced as a result than ever of the superiority of islam, of the islamic ethics, epistemology, art, easthetics , ontology .............to be honest
Islam as the conscience of the world, as the one & only objective true neutral universal belief that can judge , approach , evaluate , analyze , interpret ....all human history, behaviour , beliefs , cultures, thoughtstreams , ethics, epistemology , ontology ....like no other together with the insights of true science as the legetimate natural daugher of islam, science without materialism as an ideology, together with insights from other beliefs, cultures, thoughtstreams , knowledge, wisdom emenating from the human heart mind soul experiences , human nature, empirics ....all humans do share with each other that get corrupted by culture society ideology economics politics ...islam tries to cleanse them from
There are no universal objective neutral true 'tools " to do just that than islam's
That's why any culture , ethics , ....cannor approach another culture , ethics ...via their own historic cultural ones ...let alone that religious ethics for example can be approached by the secular ones ...
P.S.: why this Zizek that tries to sound as an 'independent " , anti-mainstream thinker who tries to condemn the brainwash , hypocrisy , ideology, make -believe, injustices , inequalities, oppressions ...of society , culture, belief, capitalism ....why does he pay lip services to the jews , to the zionists ,even though he tries so hard to sound critical in that regard , why does he feel the need to flirt with the jews so often that he makes the reader get fed up with it ?
I was fed up with his constant allusions to the jewish suffering ....in order to to satisfy the jewish lobbies , the latters that can end his carriere if he did not constantly flirt with the jews or jewish suffering ...
why does he implicitly or explicitly call the palestinian resistance a form of terrorism ? zizek as the so-called "freedom fighter " haha while his very materialistic thought, view of life , ethics , paradigms ...deny the existence of the free will or freedom as such, ironically enough ...pff...disappointing hypocrit jews ' shoe likker ass-kisser in that regard : disgusting
zizek reminds me of that hypocrit Sartre with his hypocrit double thought : pretending to believe in the absolute freedom of the individual while impilictly adhering to the marxist dogm whose deterministic historic materialism is the very negation or denial of any human freedom as such, ironically paradoxically enough , Sartre that French nobel prize winner Albert Camus had deciphered the fundamental hypocrisy double thought of : sartre as a bourgoeis & a communist at the same time haha
I do advice u to read that brilliant novel of Camus : an artistic "revenge" holding the mirror to hypocrit sartre : La Chute : a genius masterpiece of art that had almost cost me a nervous breakdown when i read it ....
Cartesian La chute that has some similarities with Dante's divine comedy , with the inverted christian confession notion ,,,,with Moliere 's Don Juan's decadence & the impossibility to believe ....
read Camus ' whole oeuvre = really worth it = very actual = he deserved that nobel prize for it enormously
some christian critics said that Camus was flirting with christianity in la Chute , while he denies any sympathy for christianity , i felt he was flirting with religious belief as the only logical decent true outcome for his existential struggle he displayed in La Chute so genuinely, so it seems , after being so deeply hurt in his very soul by Sartre's & co . 's harsh critics of his very intellectual capacity credibility after the publishing of his philosophical essay : L'homme revolte ....
I think Camus just did not have the guts to break free from "The boundaries of the thinkable " of his society culture , because he wanted so bad to conform while sounding like a genuine revolutionary intellecftual at the same time = he was on the verge of belief he rejected because he wanted to conform so bad in order to make the critics forget or forgive some of his intellectual shortcomings revealed by sartre & co = shortcomings that had some elements of truth thus
This zizek cannot cross the "boundaries of the thinkable " in the west , see chomsky's book with the same title, cannot touch some western inverted taboos like the jewish question, homosexuality ....
he is no more than the product of the same society he pretends to decipher or to break free from , he is no more than his own enslaving master to that same society by implying some forms of auto-censership & boundaries of the thinkable, taboos ...to himself he tries so hard not only not to cross , but he also does his best to conform in that regard
Thank u very much for ur gifts
Aha. Een soort post-mortem mond-op-mond beademing van de 'kritische theorie'.
Als ik er ook eens fris van de lever op los mag associëren.
Haha.
Nee, maar het is een hele goede vraag die je stelt.
De kritische school is de lijn van de (Joegoslavische) partijbonzen en hun intellectuelen:
The most representative orientation of Marxism in the twentieth century—critical theory of the Frankfurt school—obsessed over Fascism, anti-Semitism, and so on, and simply ignored the topic of Stalinism. Sure, there are a couple of small books, but there is no systematic theory of what Stalinism is. So for me, the key phenomenon to be accounted for in the twentieth century is Stalinism. Because again, Fascism is simple, conservative reaction going wrong. The true enigma is why Stalinism or communism went wrong.
Source (http://www.believermag.com/issues/200407/?read=interview_zizek)
De bronnen van de kritsche school zijn Hegel, Marx en Freud.
Žižek's bronnen zijn Hegel, Marx en Lacan.
Maar het is niet zo dat Žižek een voortzetting is van de kritische school waarbij Freud vervangen is door Lacan.
Lacan is de psychiater van de kritische school (Lacaans fundamentalisme).
Žižek bevrijdt hem van Gil Deleuze (Organs without Bodies, 2003) en dat begint met de dissidente Heideggeriaan Žižek en andere dissidente Heideggerianen aan de faculteit sociologie, universiteit Ljubljana.
40 jaar later is er een stapel van ruim 30 boeken ontstaan die toch allemaal gelezen moeten zijn als je een goed beeld wilt hebben van Žižek. Aanvullend op de boeken zijn de DVD The Perverts Guide of Cinema en een achttal videorapportages (lezingen en discussies).
Wat hinderlijk kan zijn in de boeken van Žižek is dat hij verwijst naar gebeurtenissen achte het voormalige Ijzeren Gordijn. Ik vind dat zelf boeiend omdat er vele verborgen schatten uit de Slavische cultuur getoond worden.
Wat filosofie betreft vestigt Žižek - tegen de stroom in - de aandacht op het Duits Idealisme. Het is zelfs een soort eerherstel .
In het heden verwerpt Žižek de opstelling van de kritische school dat socialisme 'vulgair communisme (Marx)'is.
De kwaliteit van Stalin's favoriete musicals over het kolchozeleven heeft bijna een generatie van muziekhaters in de voormalige Oostblok-landen voortgebracht :maf:
Vulgair communisme is een sociologische term. Žižek neemt uit Poverty of Philosophy (Marx) over dat socialisme zich presenteert als een feodalistisch alternatief voor neoliberalisme.
Een kritische opstelling tegenover links, maar wel vanuit oprechte betrokkenheid. Want zijn linkse idealen heeft Žižek nooit verraden en dat siert hem.
Al met al gedachten van Žižek die naar mijn mening kunnen bijdragen aan een oplossing voor de huidige linkse krachteloosheid
Ah, eindelijk maakt het sence.
28 augustus 2004:
Mobiel: http://www.maroc.nl/forums/media-beeldvorming/108119-talk-philosopher-slavoj-zizek.html
Wrapper: Forums | Maroc.NL (http://www.maroc.nl/index.php?jfile=showthread.php?t=108119&option=com_jfusion&Itemid=472)
Hieronder een filmpje waarvan de essentie is dat als je moraliserend het vingertje heft naar een ander je eigenlijk alleen bezig bent je eigen verleidingen te bestrijden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GXPffEWS8g
T.a.v. Black Box
I "fear " the Greeks even when they bring gifts haha
I have been reading "How to read lacan " , in 1 word : delight , to some extent at least
:
Wow!
Yesterday I ran into a webpage with the analysis of Mohammed Bouyeri's letter: Slavoj Zizek - How to Read Lacan - The Perverse Subject of Politics: Lacan as a reader of Mohammad Bouyeri (http://www.lacan.com/zizbouyeri.html)
T.a.v.Black Box :
Has man got no imagination, no creativity , no innovation....is human knowledge an a-historic static thing that ....that man gotta try to revive the dead = Freudian psychoanalysis & marxism ? pathetic , even though , they both have some elements of the truth as all cultures, beliefs, thoughtstreams ...have by the way
I must admit i did enjoy "How to read lacan " enormously , that's somehow my kindda thing, , some parts of 'violence" , some others of "The plague of fantasies "...........sound more like literature to me, so, i think that art in general is more capable of addressing these human issues like no other , i love art in the broader sense , so :
So, i was delighted by "How to read Lacan " for example : awesome to some extent at least
reading the 'analysis " of the murderer of Gogh , i can only conclude as a result that one has tried to imprison a whole religion or "fundamentalism", the latter as a christian Eurocentric cultural label projection superego , in one single individual while it is a fact that the islamic experience of one muslim individual is unlike that of another muslim individual , even though , all muslims would per definition function within the islamic belief paradigms they seem to share with each other , in theory at least ....
in other words : while i see some truth in what i read , i can only feel disappointed by the ideological fundamental unnuanced materialistic reductionistic part of the whole thing that tries to reduce everything to a certain materialistic view of life , paradigms , in order to make the truth fit into those paradigms = truth at the service of ideology , not the other way around , unfortunately enough ...Zizek himself acting as our so-called superego that whispers things in our ears subtly , shaping our thought & behaviour in the process, while condemining superego or the big other , ironically enough = trying to replace the one by the other = by his = by Zizek's , "liberating " us from one slavery by enslaving us by Zizek's thought haha
Thanks once again for ur uploads , links, articles ....explanations , time , energy , patience , geneorisity ....i do appreciate :
some parts of ur stuff are delightful ,funny, sharp, deep, beautiful, inspiring , awesome , enlightening ...indeed
In his breaktrough For They Don't Know What They Do (1991) Zizek sketches 3 clusters to be investigated:
1. religious/ideological madness
2. psychoanalysis beyond Freud is an instrument for social critics.
3. the importance anlysing populart art (mass manipulation)
In The Ticklish Subject (1999) he takes to task critics critics of Cartesian subjectivity in the fields of German Idealism (1), French political philosophy (2) and Anglo-American cultural studies (3), directing blame for contemporary scientific and technological catastrophes away from the cogito and laying it squarely at the door of capitalism.
The 3 clusters in For They Don't Know What They Do are a match with the division in The Ticklish Subject therfore giving quite an acurate cartography of Eurocentrism.
Eurocentrism which is not only in the heads of European politcal leaders, but also in the heads of Obama, the president of North-Korea, Ghadaffi and so on.
I enjoyed & will enjoy that while getting more convinced as a result than ever of the superiority of islam, of the islamic ethics, epistemology, art, easthetics , ontology .............to be honest
Islam as the conscience of the world, as the one & only objective true neutral universal belief that can judge , approach , evaluate , analyze , interpret ....all human history, behaviour , beliefs , cultures, thoughtstreams , ethics, epistemology , ontology ....like no other together with the insights of true science as the legetimate natural daugher of islam, science without materialism as an ideology, together with insights from other beliefs, cultures, thoughtstreams , knowledge, wisdom emenating from the human heart mind soul experiences , human nature, empirics ....all humans do share with each other that get corrupted by culture society ideology economics politics ...islam tries to cleanse them from
There are no universal objective neutral true 'tools " to do just that than islam's
That's why any culture , ethics , ....cannor approach another culture , ethics ...via their own historic cultural ones ...let alone that religious ethics for example can be approached by the secular ones ...
Thes 'Eurocentric Trinity' (see above) can be placed in Tim Winter's hermeneutical ontology and aesthetic epistemology. The American cultural studies are without subjects of aesthetic epistemology. So multiculturalism can be fun in arts, but not in politics as the real thing (hermeneutic ontology) since multiculturalism in politics causes kerygmatic ontology (Enlightenment fascism).
I happen to know someone in his late fifties now, who just like Zizek graduated on philosophy and psychology. He is very grateful to me because I showed him the way to Ibn Khaldun for 2 reasons. The first that sociology proper is alway in touch with teh economic reality.
Khaldun describes an existing autarchy. Meanwhile Marx is proposing an autarchy.
The second reason is that Khaldun gives a better insight of the (imagined) equilibrium of sexual drive and religious drive.
Khaldun: Religious propaganda emerges (naturally) from group feeling.
Of course group feeling is solidarity and the opposite of solidarity is alienation which leads back to Anders Breivink, his horrible act and the possibility a copy cat will do the same in Holland.
P.S.: why this Zizek that tries to sound as an 'independent " , anti-mainstream thinker who tries to condemn the brainwash , hypocrisy , ideology, make -believe, injustices , inequalities, oppressions ...of society , culture, belief, capitalism ....why does he pay lip services to the jews , to the zionists ,even though he tries so hard to sound critical in that regard , why does he feel the need to flirt with the jews so often that he makes the reader get fed up with it ?
I was fed up with his constant allusions to the jewish suffering ....in order to to satisfy the jewish lobbies , the latters that can end his carriere if he did not constantly flirt with the jews or jewish suffering ...
why does he implicitly or explicitly call the palestinian resistance a form of terrorism ? zizek as the so-called "freedom fighter " haha while his very materialistic thought, view of life , ethics , paradigms ...deny the existence of the free will or freedom as such, ironically enough ...pff...disappointing hypocrit jews ' shoe likker ass-kisser in that regard : disgusting
zizek reminds me of that hypocrit Sartre with his hypocrit double thought : pretending to believe in the absolute freedom of the individual while impilictly adhering to the marxist dogm whose deterministic historic materialism is the very negation or denial of any human freedom as such, ironically paradoxically enough , Sartre that French nobel prize winner Albert Camus had deciphered the fundamental hypocrisy double thought of : sartre as a bourgoeis & a communist at the same time haha
I do advice u to read that brilliant novel of Camus : an artistic "revenge" holding the mirror to hypocrit sartre : La Chute : a genius masterpiece of art that had almost cost me a nervous breakdown when i read it ....
Cartesian La chute that has some similarities with Dante's divine comedy , with the inverted christian confession notion ,,,,with Moliere 's Don Juan's decadence & the impossibility to believe ....
read Camus ' whole oeuvre = really worth it = very actual = he deserved that nobel prize for it enormously
some christian critics said that Camus was flirting with christianity in la Chute , while he denies any sympathy for christianity , i felt he was flirting with religious belief as the only logical decent true outcome for his existential struggle he displayed in La Chute so genuinely, so it seems , after being so deeply hurt in his very soul by Sartre's & co . 's harsh critics of his very intellectual capacity credibility after the publishing of his philosophical essay : L'homme revolte ....
I think Camus just did not have the guts to break free from "The boundaries of the thinkable " of his society culture , because he wanted so bad to conform while sounding like a genuine revolutionary intellecftual at the same time = he was on the verge of belief he rejected because he wanted to conform so bad in order to make the critics forget or forgive some of his intellectual shortcomings revealed by sartre & co = shortcomings that had some elements of truth thus
This zizek cannot cross the "boundaries of the thinkable " in the west , see chomsky's book with the same title, cannot touch some western inverted taboos like the jewish question, homosexuality ....
he is no more than the product of the same society he pretends to decipher or to break free from , he is no more than his own enslaving master to that same society by implying some forms of auto-censership & boundaries of the thinkable, taboos ...to himself he tries so hard not only not to cross , but he also does his best to conform in that regard
Thank u very much for ur gifts
I disagree with Žižek on using 'Zionism'. Zionism to me is Neturei Karta and such. Using Zionism has the build-in semantic risk that a anti-zionist can be declared to a anti-Semite :denl:
Judaism is put aside as henotheism by Žižek.
Žižek has visited Israel a couple of times but that is mainly because he is as member of the Slovenian Liberal Democratic Party that has the same political programm as the Israeli Meretz Party which is accused of bringing in bad Western influences into Israel.
So is not forbidden entrance tot Israel. But it is for sure that he is a supporter of the Palestinians.
Harts intelligentie
29-08-11, 00:02
[QUOTE=BlackBox;4814979]Wow!
Yesterday I ran into a webpage with the analysis of Mohammed Bouyeri's letter: Slavoj Zizek - How to Read Lacan - The Perverse Subject of Politics: Lacan as a reader of Mohammad Bouyeri (http://www.lacan.com/zizbouyeri.html)
I told u what i thought about it
In his breaktrough For They Don't Know What They Do (1991) Zizek sketches 3 clusters to be investigated:
1. religious/ideological madness
2. psychoanalysis beyond Freud is an instrument for social critics.
3. the importance anlysing populart art (mass manipulation)
In The Ticklish Subject (1999) he takes to task critics critics of Cartesian subjectivity in the fields of German Idealism (1), French political philosophy (2) and Anglo-American cultural studies (3), directing blame for contemporary scientific and technological catastrophes away from the cogito and laying it squarely at the door of capitalism.
do u have that book ? "for they do not know what they do " , do u have a digital or e version of it ?, thanks
Tell me what or who interests u besides zizek, marxism, freud, lacan ....i m getting tired of discussing them , to be honest
can we talk about somethingelse more interesting ?
The 3 clusters in For They Don't Know What They Do are a match with the division in The Ticklish Subject therfore giving quite an acurate cartography of Eurocentrism.
Eurocentrism which is not only in the heads of European politcal leaders, but also in the heads of Obama, the president of North-Korea, Ghadaffi and so on.
Interesting : Eurocentrism does not exist only in most western heads , but also in those of their non-western modern slaves , no wonder
Thes 'Eurocentric Trinity' (see above) can be placed in Tim Winter's hermeneutical ontology and aesthetic epistemology. The American cultural studies are without subjects of aesthetic epistemology. So multiculturalism can be fun in arts, but not in politics as the real thing (hermeneutic ontology) since multiculturalism in politics causes kerygmatic ontology (Enlightenment fascism).
ok, i have a very interesting recent book concerning the french, british & American 'enlightenments " = a real eye opener
I happen to know someone in his late fifties now, who just like Zizek graduated on philosophy and psychology. He is very grateful to me because I showed him the way to Ibn Khaldun for 2 reasons. The first that sociology proper is alway in touch with teh economic reality.
Ik zie dat niet echt terug in de modern sociologie hoor, de academisch laatste functioneert alsof men op een heel ander planeet leeft
Khaldun describes an existing autarchy. Meanwhile Marx is proposing an autarchy.
The second reason is that Khaldun gives a better insight of the (imagined) equilibrium of sexual drive and religious drive.
can u explain that to me in simple language ?
Khaldun: Religious propaganda emerges (naturally) from group feeling.
Of course group feeling is solidarity and the opposite of solidarity is alienation which leads back to Anders Breivink, his horrible act and the possibility a copy cat will do the same in Holland.
Things are not that simple, buddy
I do not agree with these kindda generalisations scenarios , otherwise , we would have a million Breivink , a million Attas ............
I disagree with Žižek on using 'Zionism'. Zionism to me is Neturei Karta and such. Using Zionism has the build-in semantic risk that a anti-zionist can be declared to a anti-Semite :denl:
Judaism is put aside as henotheism by Žižek.
I am sick & tired of zizek's references to jews, jewish suffering ....as if jews were the only ones who had suffered = a very suspicious thing one encounters in every corner of zizek's plea .............
Žižek has visited Israel a couple of times but that is mainly because he is as member of the Slovenian Liberal Democratic Party that has the same political programm as the Israeli Meretz Party which is accused of bringing in bad Western influences into Israel.
So is not forbidden entrance tot Israel. But it is for sure that he is a supporter of the Palestinians.
Liberal democractic party ? but zizek is a marxist , how come ?
zizek is a suspicious ass -kisser when it comes to jews, zionism , israel, even though he tries so hard to sound critical in that regard
shall we talk about somethingelse ? i am sick & tired of this alcoholic drug-addict communist zizek haha, even though he is interesting at many levels indeed
P.S.: do u remember that u wanted once to send me some ebooks from the US library of congres or something like that via ur e-mail ? can u do that again ? because then at that time i had not much interest in the net .....i was busy ....
Do u have some tips on how to get some ebooks from internet without paying a penny ? haha seriously , appreciate , thanks
I prefer that u would do that via my pm or my email i can give u , not this public way , do the latter if u want to anyway , otherwise
Good night , thanks once again for ur gifts , Greek haha , i appreciate them
I am totally at ease even when u bring gifts , Greek haha
Harts intelligentie
30-08-11, 19:32
................Silence of tha ...lambs ? haha
Talk to u another time, buddy
I am very busy right now . my apologies
Thank u very much 4 everything, appreciate , all the best
Thank you!
Politicians are not able to get rid of liberal communists (inbetween Nazism and Stalinism!).
A better analysis of liberal communism is necessary.
liberal communists.
Contradictio in terminis!
Contradictio in terminis!
Thought Leader » Bert Olivier » What is a liberal communist? (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/bertolivier/2011/01/01/what-is-a-liberal-communist/) (post #88 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4812548-post88.html))
Thought Leader » Bert Olivier » What is a liberal communist? (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/bertolivier/2011/01/01/what-is-a-liberal-communist/) (post #88 (http://www.maroc.nl/forums/4812548-post88.html))
Of een oxymoron dus. En zie wat er gebeurt wanneer men het communisme probeert te liberaliseren:
Praagse Lente (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praagse_Lente)
Of een oxymoron dus. En zie wat er gebeurt wanneer men het communisme probeert te liberaliseren:
Praagse Lente (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Praagse_Lente)
Brezjnev was een liberaal communist.
Brezjnev was een liberaal communist.
Ja, en hij voerde in Tsjechoslowakije de liberale communistische democratie in, net als in tal van oostbloklanden en in de SU.
Maar goed, leg eens uit. (Liefst in eigen woorden en begrijpelijke taal).
Volgens Karl Marx was Communisme een natuurlijke ontwikkeling en Kapitalisme een vorm van onderdrukking.
In zoverre kun je dus best een liberale communist zijn: gewoon de mensen vrij laten en dan komt het vanzelf goed.
Volgens Karl Marx was Communisme een natuurlijke ontwikkeling en Kapitalisme een vorm van onderdrukking.
In zoverre kun je dus best een liberale communist zijn: gewoon de mensen vrij laten en dan komt het vanzelf goed.
Marx heeft zelden aangedrongen op onderdrukking, dat is waar. Het communisme combineren met liberale vrijheden kwam ook niet in zijn hoofd op. In de praktijk bleek al snel dat de loop van de geschiedenis een handje geholpen moest en daarom voegden Lenin en Stalin hun inzichten aan het marxisme toe. Het communisme werd een mengeling van de opvatting van Marx, Lenin en Stalin.
Volgens Karl Marx was Communisme een natuurlijke ontwikkeling en Kapitalisme een vorm van onderdrukking.
Maar daar zat zijn grote denkfout natuurlijk.Dat heeft de praktijk ook bewezen.
Die uiteindelijk bedachte socalistische heilstaat is dan ook meer gevormd door hoop dan dat hij echt theoretisch onderbouwd wordt.Logisch eigenlijk, want niemand kan in de toekomst kijken.
Het mensbeeld van Marx klopte niet. Dat bleek in de jaren 20 toen Henri Ford betaalbare auto's voor zijn eigen arbeiders ging maken. Arbeiders bleken toen dus ook gewoon kapitalisten te zijn.
In zoverre kun je dus best een liberale communist zijn: gewoon de mensen vrij laten en dan komt het vanzelf goed.
Sociaal-kapitalist lijkt mij dan beter. De mens is van nature kapitalistisch ingesteld (erst das fressen und dan die moral) en niet communistisch (erst die moral). Eigen bezit is een diepgewortelde behoefte.
De mensen vrij laten ..... Ja. Maar tot op zekere hoogte natuurlijk. Want anders komt hij in botsing met de vrijheid van een ander. En op dat grensvlak moet het nodige geregeld worden door wet en staat.
De politieke discussie tussen links en rechts is eigenlijk bepalen waar die grens ergens ligt.
Maar daar zat zijn grote denkfout natuurlijk.Dat heeft de praktijk ook bewezen.
Die uiteindelijk bedachte socalistische heilstaat is dan ook meer gevormd door hoop dan dat hij echt theoretisch onderbouwd wordt.Logisch eigenlijk, want niemand kan in de toekomst kijken.
Het mensbeeld van Marx klopte niet. Dat bleek in de jaren 20 toen Henri Ford betaalbare auto's voor zijn eigen arbeiders ging maken. Arbeiders bleken toen dus ook gewoon kapitalisten te zijn.
Sociaal-kapitalist lijkt mij dan beter. De mens is van nature kapitalistisch ingesteld (erst das fressen und dan die moral) en niet communistisch (erst die moral). Eigen bezit is een diepgewortelde behoefte.
De mensen vrij laten ..... Ja. Maar tot op zekere hoogte natuurlijk. Want anders komt hij in botsing met de vrijheid van een ander. En op dat grensvlak moet het nodige geregeld worden door wet en staat.
De politieke discussie tussen links en rechts is eigenlijk bepalen waar die grens ergens ligt.
Opzich een goede omschrijving van een ethisch ondernemen (tweede gedeelte quote)..
Liberaal communist is de vlag die de lading van de rechtse populist dekt.
In Mao The Unkown Story (2005) wordt beschreven dat in 1958-1961 ongeveer 38 miljoen Chinzezen door Mao de dood ingejaagd zijn omdat voedsel uit China geruild werd tegen wapens (incl. atoombommen) uit de Sovjet-Unie.
Degenen die de dood vonden waren voornamelijk kleine boeren en hun gezinnen en dat vond Mao prima omdat boeren per definitie de vijanden zijn van de radicale emancipatiebeweging die het Marxisme is.
Dus de bestempeling van Marokkanen als 'Rifboertjes' is eerder stalinistisch/maoďstisch dan nazistisch.
Het willen opruimen van Marokkanen etc. is een heel rationeel proces (Breivink).
De Holocaust is een gril van Hitler geweest en vooral irrationeel; het grootschalig gebruik van treinen voor deportaties richting gaskamers in plaats van oorlogsmateriaal om Lebensraum te verwerven.
Oppositie voeren tegen rechts populisme met verwijten van xenofobie (onderbuik!), neonazisme en zelfs nieuwe Holocaust heeft niet zoveel zin. De aanhang van "rechtse" populisten wordt steeds groter omdat ze heel handig weten te switchen tussen 'law and order' en de geneugten van liberalisme (radicale emancipatie).
In het Rotterdamse heeft Leefbaar Rotterdam als wervend programmapunt een pro-coffeeshop-standpunt gehad naast een zo groot mogelijk contigent stadmariniers.
Dit kun je bipolair beleid noemen. Maar hoe het ook zij, het is niet zomaar iets roepen en daar zal adequaat op ingespeeld moeten worden om verdere verloedering en eventuele excessen (Breivink) te voorkomen.