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Zwarte Schaap
02-08-03, 23:45
'Contact kapers 11-09 met Saudische spionnen'


WASHINGTON (ANP) - Twee kapers van 11 september 2001 hadden mogelijk contact met de Saudische geheime dienst. De inlichtingendienst kan hiervan verslag hebben uitgebracht aan Saudische regeringsfunctionarissen.

Dat meldt de krant The New York Times zaterdag. Het dagblad baseert zich op personen die het geheime deel hebben kunnen lezen van een officieel rapport over de aanslagen van september twee jaar geleden.

Het niet vrijgegeven deel van het verslag van het Amerikaanse parlement meldt dat twee Saudische burgers die minstens indirect contact met twee kapers hadden, waarschijnlijk agenten van de Saudische inlichtingendienst waren. Volgens de The New York Times verklaart dit waarom dit deel van het verslag politiek zo gevoelig ligt en daarom niet is gepubliceerd.

Saudi-Arabië ontkent ook maar iets met de aanslagen van doen te hebben. Washington sluit enige betrokkenheid van de machthebbers in Riyad niet uit, maar wil de Saudi's niet voor het hoofd stoten gezien de nauwe banden tussen beide landen

Datum: 02-08-2003 23:31 Bron: ANP

Simon
03-08-03, 00:20
August 2, 2003
Report on 9/11 Suggests a Role by Saudi Spies
By JAMES RISEN and DAVID JOHNSTON


WASHINGTON, Aug. 1 — The classified part of a Congressional report on the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, says that two Saudi citizens who had at least indirect links with two hijackers were probably Saudi intelligence agents and may have reported to Saudi government officials, according to people who have seen the report.

These findings, according to several people who have read the report, help to explain why the classified part of the report has become so politically charged, causing strains between the United States and Saudi Arabia. Senior Saudi officials have denied any links between their government and the attacks and have asked that the section be declassified, but President Bush has refused.

People familiar with the report and who spoke on condition of not being named said that the two Saudi citizens, Omar al-Bayoumi and Osama Bassnan, operated in a complex web of financial relationships with officials of the Saudi government. The sections that focus on them draw connections between the two men, two hijackers, and Saudi officials.

The report urges further investigation of the two men and their contacts with the hijackers, because of unresolved questions about their relationship and whether they had any involvement in the 9/11 plot.

The edited 28-page section of the report, produced by a joint panel of the House and Senate intelligence committees, also says that a Muslim cleric in San Diego was a central figure in a support network that aided the same two hijackers. Most connections drawn in the report between the men, Saudi intelligence and the attacks are circumstantial, several people who have read the report said.

The unclassified parts of the report also suggest a connection between Mr. al-Bayoumi and Saudi intelligence. The report says that "one of the F.B.I.'s best sources in San Diego informed the F.B.I. that he thought that al-Bayoumi must be an intelligence officer." The report also says that "despite the fact that he was a student, al-Bayoumi had access to seemingly unlimited funding from Saudi Arabia."

The joint inquiry's investigation of Mr. al-Bayoumi and Mr. Bassnan centered on their activities three years ago when they were living in San Diego. The report concluded that the two men were crucial to understanding the events leading up to the plot, largely because of Mr. al-Bayoumi's extensive contacts with two of the 9/11 hijackers, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, after they settled in San Diego in early 2000. There is no definitive evidence that Mr. Bassnan knew the hijackers, but the report describes him as a close associate of Mr. al-Bayoumi.

One unresolved issue in the classified part of the report concerned Mr. Bassnan's visit to Houston after the attacks. While Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah met with President Bush, Mr. Bassnan met with a Saudi in his entourage, according to the report. It is not known what they discussed.

In San Diego, Mr. al-Bayoumi was employed by a contractor to the Saudi civil aviation authority, and received payments authorized by a Saudi official. But Congressional officials believe he was a "ghost employee" of the contractor who did no actual work. The payments authorized by the Saudi official increased significantly after Mr. al-Bayoumi came in contact with the two hijackers in early 2000, the classified part of the report states.

According to the unclassified parts of the report, Mr. al-Bayoumi first befriended Mr. al-Mihdhar and Mr. al-Hazmi in January 2000 when they arrived in Los Angeles from Bangkok, after attending a meeting in Malaysia with other operatives of al Qaeda. The two men stayed in Mr. al-Bayoumi's apartment for several days. He helped them find their own apartment, paid their first month's rent and security deposit, and threw a party to help them get settled in the local Arabic community.

Law enforcement officials have said, though, that Mr. Almidhar repaid Mr. al-Bayoumi and added that there was no evidence Mr. al-Bayoumi or Mr. Bassnan ever provided any other money to Mr. Almidhar or Mr. Hazmi. That point, the officials said, helps to explain why Mr. al-Bayoumi has not been accused of any crime, like providing material support to terrorists.

Law enforcement officials have played down the significance of the connection between Mr. al-Bayoumi and the two hijackers, saying there is no evidence that Mr. al-Bayoumi knew of the 9/11 plot. They dismissed the tone of the report, which they say portrays the possible links between the plot and Saudi Arabian officials as clearer and more direct than is actually known.

F.B.I. and C.I.A. officials have also said that they are not certain why Mr. al-Bayoumi was in San Diego, and that they are not certain of his exact relationship with the Saudi government. Some officials said that even if he was not a professional Saudi intelligence officer, he may have had some informal role. It is possible, they believe, that he was assigned to monitor the activities of Saudi students and other expatriates in the United States.

Investigators said that the role of the Muslim cleric who the report says served as a "spiritual adviser" to the two hijackers is central to an understanding of what happened in San Diego. The cleric is not named in the declassified section of the report, but officials identified him as Anwar Aulaqi. He is said to have held meetings with the two hijackers, and when he moved to Falls Church, Va., in 2001, the two hijackers moved as well and began to attend the mosque with which the cleric was now associated. Officials said that the report made clear that the cleric's role needs to be investigated further.

Today, 46 Democratic senators asked that the deleted material be released, saying the national security issues Mr. Bush cited as the reason the material was classified could be addressed by careful editing. Republicans, including Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, a former Intelligence Committee chairman, have also called for its release.

Several Congressional officials familiar with the report say that only a small part of the classified section dealing with the specifics of F.B.I. counterintelligence and counterterrorism activities should remain classified. Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, said, "Keeping this material classified only strengthens the theory that some in the U.S. government are hellbent on covering up for the Saudis."

National Security Council officials are leading an interagency delegation to Saudi Arabia this weekend to discuss with Saudi officials investigations into the financing of terrorism. The Americans may also ask Saudi permission to interview Mr. al-Bayoumi, who is reportedly now in Saudi Arabia, officials said.

After 9/11, Mr. al-Bayoumi was briefly interviewed in Britain, but has never returned to the United States to face in-depth questioning.

bron: NYT

Wizdom
03-08-03, 00:28
Geplaatst door Simon
August 2, 2003
Report on 9/11 Suggests a Role by Saudi Spies
By JAMES RISEN and DAVID JOHNSTON


WASHINGTON, Aug. 1 — The classified part of a Congressional report on the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, says that two Saudi citizens who had at least indirect links with two hijackers were probably Saudi intelligence agents and may have reported to Saudi government officials, according to people who have seen the report.

These findings, according to several people who have read the report, help to explain why the classified part of the report has become so politically charged, causing strains between the United States and Saudi Arabia. Senior Saudi officials have denied any links between their government and the attacks and have asked that the section be declassified, but President Bush has refused.

People familiar with the report and who spoke on condition of not being named said that the two Saudi citizens, Omar al-Bayoumi and Osama Bassnan, operated in a complex web of financial relationships with officials of the Saudi government. The sections that focus on them draw connections between the two men, two hijackers, and Saudi officials.

The report urges further investigation of the two men and their contacts with the hijackers, because of unresolved questions about their relationship and whether they had any involvement in the 9/11 plot.

The edited 28-page section of the report, produced by a joint panel of the House and Senate intelligence committees, also says that a Muslim cleric in San Diego was a central figure in a support network that aided the same two hijackers. Most connections drawn in the report between the men, Saudi intelligence and the attacks are circumstantial, several people who have read the report said.

The unclassified parts of the report also suggest a connection between Mr. al-Bayoumi and Saudi intelligence. The report says that "one of the F.B.I.'s best sources in San Diego informed the F.B.I. that he thought that al-Bayoumi must be an intelligence officer." The report also says that "despite the fact that he was a student, al-Bayoumi had access to seemingly unlimited funding from Saudi Arabia."

The joint inquiry's investigation of Mr. al-Bayoumi and Mr. Bassnan centered on their activities three years ago when they were living in San Diego. The report concluded that the two men were crucial to understanding the events leading up to the plot, largely because of Mr. al-Bayoumi's extensive contacts with two of the 9/11 hijackers, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, after they settled in San Diego in early 2000. There is no definitive evidence that Mr. Bassnan knew the hijackers, but the report describes him as a close associate of Mr. al-Bayoumi.

One unresolved issue in the classified part of the report concerned Mr. Bassnan's visit to Houston after the attacks. While Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah met with President Bush, Mr. Bassnan met with a Saudi in his entourage, according to the report. It is not known what they discussed.

In San Diego, Mr. al-Bayoumi was employed by a contractor to the Saudi civil aviation authority, and received payments authorized by a Saudi official. But Congressional officials believe he was a "ghost employee" of the contractor who did no actual work. The payments authorized by the Saudi official increased significantly after Mr. al-Bayoumi came in contact with the two hijackers in early 2000, the classified part of the report states.

According to the unclassified parts of the report, Mr. al-Bayoumi first befriended Mr. al-Mihdhar and Mr. al-Hazmi in January 2000 when they arrived in Los Angeles from Bangkok, after attending a meeting in Malaysia with other operatives of al Qaeda. The two men stayed in Mr. al-Bayoumi's apartment for several days. He helped them find their own apartment, paid their first month's rent and security deposit, and threw a party to help them get settled in the local Arabic community.

Law enforcement officials have said, though, that Mr. Almidhar repaid Mr. al-Bayoumi and added that there was no evidence Mr. al-Bayoumi or Mr. Bassnan ever provided any other money to Mr. Almidhar or Mr. Hazmi. That point, the officials said, helps to explain why Mr. al-Bayoumi has not been accused of any crime, like providing material support to terrorists.

Law enforcement officials have played down the significance of the connection between Mr. al-Bayoumi and the two hijackers, saying there is no evidence that Mr. al-Bayoumi knew of the 9/11 plot. They dismissed the tone of the report, which they say portrays the possible links between the plot and Saudi Arabian officials as clearer and more direct than is actually known.

F.B.I. and C.I.A. officials have also said that they are not certain why Mr. al-Bayoumi was in San Diego, and that they are not certain of his exact relationship with the Saudi government. Some officials said that even if he was not a professional Saudi intelligence officer, he may have had some informal role. It is possible, they believe, that he was assigned to monitor the activities of Saudi students and other expatriates in the United States.

Investigators said that the role of the Muslim cleric who the report says served as a "spiritual adviser" to the two hijackers is central to an understanding of what happened in San Diego. The cleric is not named in the declassified section of the report, but officials identified him as Anwar Aulaqi. He is said to have held meetings with the two hijackers, and when he moved to Falls Church, Va., in 2001, the two hijackers moved as well and began to attend the mosque with which the cleric was now associated. Officials said that the report made clear that the cleric's role needs to be investigated further.

Today, 46 Democratic senators asked that the deleted material be released, saying the national security issues Mr. Bush cited as the reason the material was classified could be addressed by careful editing. Republicans, including Senator Richard C. Shelby of Alabama, a former Intelligence Committee chairman, have also called for its release.

Several Congressional officials familiar with the report say that only a small part of the classified section dealing with the specifics of F.B.I. counterintelligence and counterterrorism activities should remain classified. Senator Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, said, "Keeping this material classified only strengthens the theory that some in the U.S. government are hellbent on covering up for the Saudis."

National Security Council officials are leading an interagency delegation to Saudi Arabia this weekend to discuss with Saudi officials investigations into the financing of terrorism. The Americans may also ask Saudi permission to interview Mr. al-Bayoumi, who is reportedly now in Saudi Arabia, officials said.

After 9/11, Mr. al-Bayoumi was briefly interviewed in Britain, but has never returned to the United States to face in-depth questioning.

bron: NYT

Dat ze met dit "zogenaamde indirecte bewijs" naar buiten durven te komen bewijst naar mijn inziens wel de arrogantie en drang naar vingertje wijzen richting Saudie Arabie.

Alsof mensen geen contact met elkaar kunnen of mogen hebben. Dit betekent net zoveel als dat wanneer je vriendelijke buurman een kinderlokker blijkt te zijn dat dan automatisch alle buren en vrienden wel criminelen c.q. kinderlokkers moeten zijn.

Die Amerikanen zijn helemaal van de wijs.... Ze zien overal bedreigingen.... Ze weten niet meer waar ze zich moeten verbergen.

barfly
03-08-03, 00:44
Ik heb 't over het algemeen niet zo op Amerikanen, zeker niet als ze weer es lekker tekeer gaan omdat ze de waarheid in pacht denken te hebben.
Aan de andere kant is het opruimen van de Al Sauds best een aardig idee :bril:

Simon
03-08-03, 00:59
Geplaatst door Wizdom
Dat ze met dit "zogenaamde indirecte bewijs" naar buiten durven te komen bewijst naar mijn inziens wel de arrogantie en drang naar vingertje wijzen richting Saudie Arabie.

Uit opinieonderzoek is gebleken dat de meeste amerikanen denken dat de kapers van 9/11 uit Irak kwamen. Maar goed, feit blijft dat de meeste kapers uit SA kwamen en dat daar ook wel oorzaken voor zijn aan te wijzen. Ik bedoel, dat is geen toeval en heeft ook wel met de inrichting van hun samenleving te maken.
Maar ik vind in het artikel van de NYT weinig nieuws staan. Uiteraard moet de rol van die geestelijke in San Diego nader onderzocht worden maar waarom is dat dan nog niet gebeurd? En de nieuwe aanwijzingen richting SA vind ik ook nogal mager. Maar goed, als ze die van belang vinden moeten ze het ook maar nader onderzoeken.

Simon

Salahdinn
03-08-03, 01:19
Maar goed, feit blijft dat de meeste kapers uit SA kwamen en dat daar ook wel oorzaken voor zijn aan te wijzen. Ik bedoel, dat is geen toeval en heeft ook wel met de inrichting van hun samenleving te maken.


IK WIL JE ERAAN HERINNEREN DAT DE VRIJHEIDSTRIJDERS UIT DE EU EN VS KWAMEN EN DAT HET DUS NIETS MET HUN SAMENLEVING TE MAKEN HAD. IK WIL JE ER OOK AAN HERINNEREN DAT DE AANVAL VAN DE VRIJHEIDSTRIJDERS HELEMAAL NIETS TE MAKEN HAD MET DE SA. HET GING OM DE VS EN HAAR ARROGANTE BUITENLANDPOLITIEK. BOONTJE KOMT VOOR ZIJN LOONTJE. :giechel:
EN DE AANVALLEN ZULLEN BLIJVEN KOMEN TOTDAT DE VS VERNIETIGT IS OF TOTDAT ZIJ ZICH REALISEREN DAT ZIJ NIET KUNNEN REGEREN OVER DE MOSLIMS.
<EINDE>

lennart
03-08-03, 19:16
Saudische geheimedienst is opgezet, getraint en wordt geleid door de Amerikanen. Dit is kortom een setup om Saudi Arabie in de toekomst aan te vallen en Koning Saud met Koning Bin Laden (familie van) te vervangen.

Ron Haleber
03-08-03, 22:29
Geplaatst door lennart
Saudische geheimedienst is opgezet, getraint en wordt geleid door de Amerikanen. Dit is kortom een setup om Saudi Arabie in de toekomst aan te vallen en Koning Saud met Koning Bin Laden (familie van) te vervangen.

Vriend lennart weet vriend Soeterik altijd als complot-theoreticus te overtreffen...

Dit roept wel een paar vragen op:

1. Heb je aanwijzingen dat OBL nog in leven is?

2. Waarom zou de USA de kip met de gouden eieren gaan slachten?

3. Welk voordeel halen de USA om Saud daarna door OBL te vervangen?

Simon
03-08-03, 23:00
Geplaatst door Salahdinn
IK WIL JE ERAAN HERINNEREN DAT DE VRIJHEIDSTRIJDERS UIT DE EU EN VS KWAMEN EN DAT HET DUS NIETS MET HUN SAMENLEVING TE MAKEN HAD.

Waarom schrijf je in kapitalen? Werk je bij de TELEGRAAF?

Maar goed, die kapers hebben alleen tijdelijk in de continenten verbleven die jij noemt maar kwamen voor een belangrijk deel uit SA. En het heeft wel degelijk met hun samenleving te maken. In SA heeft de bevolking niks te zeggen over het bestuur en heeft een extremistische vorm van Islam alle ruimte zolang ze zich niet kritisch uitlaten over het regime. Haat jegens de VS vormt een soort uitlaatklep voor frustraties die daardoor ontstaan. De buitenlandse politiek van de VS zal er ook mee te maken hebben maar dat maakt je op zich niet tot massamoordenaar.

Simon

observer
04-08-03, 16:00
Geplaatst door lennart
Saudische geheimedienst is opgezet, getraint en wordt geleid door de Amerikanen. Dit is kortom een setup om Saudi Arabie in de toekomst aan te vallen en Koning Saud met Koning Bin Laden (familie van) te vervangen. niet zozeer van familie veranderen naar meer bepalen wie de volgende koning wordt, dat staat namelijk helemaal nog niet vast, de huidige kroonprins runt de zaak wel maar is niet zeker dat hij als fahd omvalt ook werkelijk de nieuwe koning wordt

de verschillende clans binnen de saud's zullen daar nog een robbertje om vechten

de amerikanen zouden graag prinst sultan op de troon krijgen beroeps militair die goede banden met de amerikanen heeft en minder stug en strak in de leer is dan de huidige kroonprins