Turkije erkent genocide op oorspronkelijke bewoners VS

[Ibrah1234]

Nu kom je weer met een ander element, rente op Turkse spaarrekeningen.

Rente en inflatie gaan hand in hand. Het rentewapen is het voornaamste wapen wat ingezet kan worden tegen het inflatiespook, toch?

Ik denk niet eens zozeer dat het gevoerde economisch beleid van Erdogan hier debet aan is. Turkije was zo rond 2010 booming en vrijwel niet aangetast door de kredietcrisis. Het was in die tijd een sterk opkomende economie met geweldige groeicijfers.

Kan me nog heugen dat veel Turkse jongeren vanuit Duitsland afreisden naar Turkije om daar aan het werk te gaan.

Het ging denk ik mis toen Erdogan zich steeds meer profileerde als een dictator. Investeerders, vooral buitenlandse investeerders hebben een hekel aan onzekerheden en reuring. Deze trekken zich terug uit de reële economie van Turkije en de valutamarkten. Met alle gevolgen van dien.

Wie gaat er immers nog investeren in een land waar tienduizenden mensen, waaronder journalisten, ambtenaren, legerofficieren en aanhangers van een filosofische stroming, zijn opgesloten en een militaire machtsgreep net is mislukt.

[super ick]

[QUOTE=Artikel1;5679506]Maar wat Turkije doet is in vergelijking met het beestachtige handelen van het Westen in haar voormalige kolonie's een peulenschil.


* verkrachten soldaten van Erdogan minderjarige meiden?

* Fotograferen Turkse soldaten naakte vrouwen en meisje voor het oog van de camera?

* Onthoofden de Turkse autoriteiten tegenstanders zoals jouw vrije en democratische westen dat deed in haar voormalige kolonie's?

Feitelijk heb je gelijk. Volgens mij maak je echter 2 denkfouten.

1. Ik ben niet 'het westen'.
2. Ik heb niets te maken met misstanden die begaan zijn door generatiegenoten van mijn opa. Ik ben alleen verantwoordelijk voor mijn eigen daden.

[Ibrah1234]

Ik heb er verder geen kaas van gegeten, daarvoor moeten we denk ik bij Mark61 zijn, maar die Erdogan schijnt een enorme afkeer van 'rente'.

Hoe krijgt een modern Europees land als Turkije het voor elkaar om met gigantische economische groeicijfers in voorgaande jaren er monetair zo'n puinhoop van te maken.

Ja, ik zie Turkije als een modern land in tegenstelling tot de Noord-Afrikaanse landen. Turkije als de Duitsers van de regio.

Wellicht geheel ten onrechte maar vooralsnog ben ik deze mening toegedaan.

Kortom, kan een politicus zoals Erdogan het zich veroorloven zijn persoonlijke religieuze opvatting rondom het rente-instrument te laten meewegen in economisch beleid?

Ik heb het nog even opgezocht. Erdogan: “Omdat ik geloof dat rente de vader en moeder van al het kwaad is.”

[Artikel1]

Ik heb er verder geen kaas van gegeten,

Houd dan je bek dicht.

[Revisor]

Ataturk's Turkey Overturned

By HILLEL HALKIN | July 24, 2007

Some 12 or 13 years ago, when I was reporting from Israel for the New York weekly, the Forward, I wrote a piece on Kemal Ataturk, the founder of modern secular Turkey, that I submitted to the newspaper with some trepidation.

In it, I presented evidence for the likelihood of Ataturk's having had a Jewish — or more precisely, a Doenmeh — father.

The Doenmeh were a heretical Jewish sect formed, after the conversion to Islam in the 17th century of the Turkish-Jewish messianic pretender Sabbetai Zevi, by those of his followers who continued to believe in him.

Conducting themselves outwardly as Muslims in imitation of him, they lived secretly as Jews and continued to exist as a distinct, if shadowy, group well into the 20th century.

In the many biographies of Ataturk there were three or four different versions of his father's background, and although none identified him as a Jew, their very multiplicity suggested that he had been covering up his family origins.

This evidence, though limited, was intriguing. Its strongest item was a chapter in a long-forgotten autobiography of the Hebrew journalist, Itamar Ben-Avi, who described in his book a chance meeting on a rainy night in the late winter of 1911 in the bar of a Jerusalem hotel with a young Turkish captain.

Tipsy from too much arak, the captain confided to Ben-Avi that he was Jewish and recited the opening Hebrew words of the Shema Yisra'el or "Hear O Israel" prayer, which almost any Jew or Doenmeh — but no Turkish Muslim — would have known. Ten years later, Ben-Avi wrote, he opened a newspaper, saw a headline about a military coup in Turkey, and in a photograph recognized the leader that the young officer he had met the other night.

At the time, Islamic political opposition to Ataturk-style secularism was gaining strength in Turkey. What would happen, I wondered, when a Jewish newspaper in New York broke the news that the revered founder of modern Turkey was half-Jewish? I pictured riots, statues of Ataturk toppling to the ground, the secular state he had created tottering with them.

I could have spared myself the anxiety. The piece was run in the Forward, there was hardly any reaction to it anywhere, and life in Turkey went on as before. As far as I knew, not a single Turk even read what I wrote. And then, a few months ago, I received an e-mail from someone who had. I won't mention his name. He lives in a European country, is well-educated, works in the financial industry, is a staunchly secular Kemalist, and was writing to tell me that he had come across my article in the Forward and had decided to do some historical research in regard to it.

One thing he discovered, he wrote, was that Ataturk indeed traveled in the late winter of 1911 to Egypt from Damascus on his way to join the Turkish forces fighting an Italian army in Libya, a route that would have taken him through Jerusalem just when Ben-Avi claimed to have met him there.

Moreover, in 1911 he was indeed a captain, and his fondness of alcohol, which Ben-Avi could not have known about when he wrote his autobiography, is well-documented.

And here's something else that was turned up by my Turkish e-mail correspondent: Ataturk, who was born and raised in Thessaloniki, a heavily Jewish city in his day that had a large Doenmeh population, attended a grade school, known as the "Semsi Effendi School," that was run by a religious leader of the Doenmeh community named Simon Zvi. The email concluded with the sentence: "I now know — know (and I haven't a shred of doubt) — that Ataturk's father's family was indeed of Jewish stock."

I haven't a shred of doubt either. I just have, this time, less trepidation, not only because I no longer suffer from delusions of grandeur regarding the possible effects of my columns, but because there's no need to fear toppling the secular establishment of Kemalist Turkey.

It toppled for good in the Turkish elections two days ago when the Islamic Justice and Development Party was returned to power with so overwhelming a victory over its rivals that it seems safe to say that secular Turkey, at least as Ataturk envisioned it, is a thing of the past.

Actually, Ataturk's Jewishness, which he systematically sought to conceal, explains a great deal about him, above all, his fierce hostility toward Islam, the religion in which nearly every Turk of his day had been raised, and his iron-willed determination to create a strictly secular Turkish nationalism from which the Islamic component would be banished.

Who but a member of a religious minority would want so badly to eliminate religion from the identity of a Muslim majority that, after the genocide of Turkey's Christian Armenians in World War I and the expulsion of nearly all of its Christian Greeks in the early 1920s, was 99% of Turkey's population? The same motivation caused the banner of secular Arab nationalism to be first raised in the Arab world by Christian intellectuals.

Ataturk seems never to have been ashamed of his Jewish background. He hid it because it would have been political suicide not to, and the secular Turkish state that was his legacy hid it too, and with it, his personal diary, which was never published and has for all intents and purposes been kept a state secret all these years. There's no need to hide it any longer. The Islamic counterrevolution has won the day in Turkey even without its exposure.

Mr. Halkin is a contributing editor of The New York Sun.

Ataturk's Turkey Overturned - The New York Sun

[Revisor]

It began in 1686, when more than three hundred families converted to Islam in Salonika. In 1913, the doenmehs moved to Constantinople (118). Prinz concluded that the doenmeh or the Mohammedan Marrano is the product of the conversion of Shabtai Zvi in the seventeenth century (191).

The revolt of the Young Turks in 1908 against the authoritarian regime of Sultan Abdul Hamid began among the intellectuals of Salonika. It was from there that the demand for a constitutional regime originated. "Among the leaders of the revolution which resulted in a more modern government in Turkey were Djavid Bey and Mustafa Kemal. Both were ardent doenmehs. Dajavid Bey became minister of finance; Mustafa Kemal became the leader of the new regime and he adopted the name of Atatürk. His opponents tried to use his doenmeh background to unseat him, but without success. Too many of the Young Turks in the newly formed revolutionary Cabinet prayed to Allah, but had as their real prophet Shabtai Zvi, the Messiah of Smyrna"

Dit kun je terugvinden in het boek van een belangrijke joodse leider en rabi Dr. Joachim Prinz. Het boek heet 'Who are the secret Jews?' en is geschreven in 1973

Wie is rabi Dr. Joachim Prinz?

Prinz' activism helped him rise to become one of the top leaders within the Jewish organizational structure. He held top leadership positions in the World Jewish Congress, as president of the American Jewish Congress from 1958–1966, and as Chairman of the World Conference of Jewish Organizations. Later, he was a director of the Conference of Jewish Material Claims Against Germany.

Joachim Prinz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Revisor]

Dönme,
also spelled DÖNMEH (Turkish: "Convert"), Jewish sect founded in Salonika (now Thessaloníki, Greece) in the late 17th century, after the conversion to Islam of Shabbetai Tzevi, whom the sectarians believed to be the Messiah. The Dönme, who numbered about 15,000 in the late 20th century, are found primarily in Istanbul, Edirne, and Izmir, Turkey.

Shabbetai Tzevi had proclaimed himself the Messiah in 1648 and quickly gained financial support and a considerable following among Jews throughout the Holy Land, Europe, and North Africa. Early in 1666 he was arrested by Ottoman Turks and, faced with the choice of conversion or death, accepted Islam by the end of the year. The Dönme believed that the conversion of Shabbetai Tzevi was a step in the fulfillment of the messianic prophecy. They therefore also converted to Islam but secretly practiced various Judaic rites. Although they remained apart from the larger Jewish community, they preserved some knowledge of Hebrew, kept secret Hebrew names, forbade intermarriage with the Muslim population, and conducted their marriage and funeral rites in secret. As the Dönme remained secretive and lived in separate quarters, they were not generally noticed by the Muslims. Internally they split into a number of subsects, reflecting social distinctions and disputes over the successors to Shabbetai.

At the turn of the 20th century, the Dönme, well represented in the professional classes, took active part in the Young Turk movement and the revolution of 1908. After the Greco-Turkish War of 1921-22, the central Dönme community of Thessaloníki was moved to Istanbul, and a gradual process of assimilation set in. Contact with Jews was lost, and the Dönme themselves resisted Jewish attempts to return them to Judaism.


Copyright (c) 1995 Encyclopaedia Britannica, Inc. All Rights Reserved

[Revisor]

In search of followers of the false messiah [/SIZE]

Aubrey Ross is an unusual man with an unusual pastime. He's looking for Jewish Muslims. In Turkey. With the help of the Internet. And he's convinced he has found some.

By Orly Halpern

Aubrey Ross is an unusual man with an unusual pastime. He's looking for Jewish Muslims. In Turkey. With the help of the Internet. And he's convinced he has found some.

In a book entitled "The Messiah of Turkey," due to be published this winter by Frank Cass Publishers in Great Britain, Ross reveals that there are a number of key figures in the present government of Turkey who are Sabbateans - i.e., followers of Shabbtai Tzvi, a Jew who, in the 17th century, claimed he was the messiah, God of Israel, and later converted to Islam.

Ross, an Orthodox Jew from London who has lectured on mysticism at Hebrew University in Jerusalem - but has university degrees in economics and the history of political thought, and is an adviser on pensions at the National Health Service in Great Britain - became intrigued by the subject when he was reading the chapter about false messiahs in Gershom Scholem's "Major Trends in Jewish Mysticism."

"I was fascinated by a short sentence that said `many of them were still around in 1970,'" he says.

Shabbtai Zvi was born in Izmir, Turkey in 1625 and became a Muslim in the 1660s, Ross explains, when he was challenged by the sultan of Turkey for declaring that his mission as messiah was to take back the land of Israel, then under Ottoman rule. The sultan offered him three alternatives: make a miracle and become the true messiah of the Jews; be killed; or become a Muslim. Shabbtai Tzvi chose the latter.

"Shabbtai Tzvi embraced Islam," he says, "and that would be the end of the story, but he claimed that his embrace was different than Jesus' crucifixion: He was entering the `dark world' to bring life into it. His followers called this the `sacredness of sin' and quoted Isaiah 53: `The messiah will suffer.'"

Adds Ross: "Anyway, most people say the messiah will suffer - leading the Jewish people is not easy!"

After Shabbtai Tzvi's death, he relates, his family and followers moved to Salonika. When Greece took it over in 1924, descendants of that community returned to Turkey.

Underground kabbalist colleges

"I wasn't satisfied with the sentence about many of them being around in 1970," Ross says. "I went to a lady professor of kabbala in London who insisted [the Sabbateans] were a 17th-century phenomenon that faded away in the early part of the 20th century. I said I don't think they did. Then a friend introduced me to Naim Tucsin, a Turkish Muslim professor of politics at London University, who told me he would contact an editor of an Istanbul newspaper who is a Jew and ask him about it. Six months later, I got a phone call from the editor, saying `come to Istanbul.'"

He traveled to Istanbul and stayed at the Pier Palace Hotel. One day, Ross "was taken to the office of a Muslim gentleman. I sat down, was given coffee and he asked me, `What do you know about `tiferet' [glory]?' The significance of the term represents an entire kabbalistic structure in which tiferet is the God of Israel."

Ross, who is also warden of Hendon United Synagogue, one of the largest in London, decided four years ago to write a book about his discoveries. He began learning Turkish and traveled twice to Turkey: "I penetrated the Sabbatean structure. I met with the president of the Sabbatean community. They were at the point of showing me one of their secret synagogues, but got scared."

He explains that "the Sabbateans believe that God is the creator of the world, but has underneath his authority the God of Israel. I discovered there are 50 `ogans' - spiritual leaders - of the Sabbatean movement. They have trained in 12 kabbalistic colleges in Turkey, which are underground. They are experts in the Zohar, in `Sefer Bahir' and `Sefer Yetsira,' prominent kabbalistic works which are accepted and respected by Orthodox Jews, but not revered [to the same extent]. They also know the Five Books of Moses, the Prophets and other writings, but very little or no Talmud as this had been transcended by Shabbtai Tzvi."

According to Ross, the secretive Sabbatean community, with an estimated 20,000 members, is known to security forces in Turkey, but not to the general public. Most of them live in Istanbul in large blocks of luxury flats in the Shishli Jewish quarter - unbeknownst to their neighbors.

"It's like a well-known secret. But the Sabbateans don't want to be exposed. I have been asked by four members of the community not to publish my book. They fear reactions from extreme Islamic elements."

To help substantiate his claims, Ross brought to Israel one of the members of the community who was willing to "come out of the closet" in order to be converted formally by rabbis: "Ilgaz Zorlu is his name. But the rabbis [in Israel] said he can't be converted because he doesn't accept all of the Talmudic law. They accepted that he knows more kabbala than they do. He prays; he practices Conservative Judaism. But, he's not bothered about Talmud so they said he had to do a nine-month conversion."

Meanwhile, Zorlu, a young accountant from Istanbul, has written his own book, which is mostly historical in nature. Entitled "Yes, I am a Salonikan," it has been printed six times.

Ross believes that there are a number of secret Sabbateans who hold key positions of influence in the Turkish parliament, legislature and executive branches of government, including the foreign minister himself. This, he observes, may help explain the close relations that exist today between Israel and Turkey.



Haaretz

[Revisor]

Zionists, Turkey and Armenians: a story of taboos, distorted truth and unholy alliances

Hagop Kassardjian

The Daily Star, 7/2/03

The history of the Armenian genocide committed by the Turks (1894-1922) is taboo in official Israeli discourse.

Evidence of this taboo is that in 1982 at the end of an international conference held in Tel Aviv on the theme of “collective genocide,” Israeli representatives withdrew from the conference as they disapproved of discussing the Armenian genocide.

This shows the limits of Zionist thought and the extent to which the Israeli government will go to satisfy the Jewish lobby and its strategic ally, Turkey.
However, other factors highlight the defensive nature of Israeli policy and the denial practised by the Israeli administration toward the Armenian genocide.

After the Cold War, Armenians, ignored by Turkish and Jewish politicians, made common cause with Arab and Iranian interests.

The Karabach conflict in South Caucasia between Armenia and Azerbaijan became an Azeri-Israeli issue.

However, the Jewish community refuses any comparison between the Holocaust and other genocides, and denies the existence of the Armenian genocide.

The Jewish-Turkish historic alliance is based on three main historical factors:
l The weight of Jewish moral debts toward the Ottomans.

Since 1461, after the fall of Andalusia, the Ottoman Empire introduced a policy of admission reserved for foreigners living in its territory. Jews fleeing Andalusia were absorbed into the Ottoman Empire and officially recognized under the Millet system.

Other peoples were organized under the same system. The Millet system separated subjects into ethnic and religious groups, which enjoyed religious freedom and a certain amount of autonomy. The Armenians were part of this system.

The Ottoman Jews were pioneers in the establishment of the Zionist entity in Palestine. They were the mediators between Zionism and the Ottoman Empire until the Balfour Declaration was signed in 1917.

Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, was born in the multi-ethnic Austro-Hungarian Empire. Herzl’s time in France and the lessons he drew from the Dreyfus affair led him to propose a national territorial solution to the Jewish issue.

In 1897, the World Zionist Organization was created at a congress in Basel, Switzerland, to represent the national aspirations of the Jews.

l The roots of Zionist denial toward the Armenian cause date back to Article 61 of the 1878 Berlin Treaty. In Article 61, the Armenian issue was raised to international level (improving the situation of Armenians in Eastern Anatolia).

It is true that international, regional and local powers supported reforms demanded by the Armenians. However, the apparent success of the internationalization of the Armenian cause had negative repercussions. It generated a feeling of malevolence and jealousy from other groups, mainly the Jews.

The Jews insisted on reforms identical to those of Armenians. Jewish hostility toward the Armenians appeared between 1894 and 1896 during the Hamidiam Massacres when the Jews of Istanbul and other provinces betrayed Armenian rebels and fugitives. Herzl also dealt with Sultan Abdel-Hamid. Jewish colonization of Palestine was proposed in exchange for support against Armenian national aspirations. The Sultan refused to let foreign Jews colonize Palestine, but permitted Ottoman Jews to do so.

l It was not until the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and the Balfour Declaration of 1917 that Zionist political achievements started taking shape. Palestine was recognized as a “national home” for the Jews.

Later, the Jewish-Turkish alliance was strengthened when Mustafa Kemal Ataturk came to power in Turkey.

The close relationship between the Jews and the Turks was unaffected by the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey was the first Muslim state to recognize the state of Israel after it was declared in 1948, and the Arab-Armenian-Iranian axis was formed to confront the Turkish-Zionist axis.

The Turkish-Zionist partnership seeks the erosion of Arab nationalism, the denial of the Armenian cause and the weakening of Iranian zeal.

In February 2002, Rebecca Cohen, an Israeli diplomat, said that “the Armenian people have been the victims of a terrible tragedy, not a collective genocide.” Such words distort the truth and were refuted by the Armenians, who reminded the Israelis that Armenians gave refuge to thousands of Jews who fled Nazi Germany.

After the foundation of the Zionist state and the Turkish-Jewish alliance, the Armenian cause was used to the advantage of Zionists.

“Turkification” is an ideology that mobilizes hatred against others (Arabs, Armenians) that stand in the way of their expansionist projects.

The Zionist-Turkish alliance, embodied in military, economic, strategic and financial ties, bears proof of the two countries’ shared objectives. This alliance can only exist in conditions that are perceived as unjust by other groups, like the Palestinians, the innocent victims of this alliance.

Hagop Kassardjian is a Beirut MP and a member of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri’s parliamentary Beirut Decision Bloc. He wrote this commentary for The Daily Star


404 Not Found

[Revisor]

According to NILI chronicler Anita Engle, “Aaron was the first and at that time the only one in Palestine to recognize the possibility of uniting British and Jewish interests in the Middle East. Official Zionism, which had its headquarters in Berlin still maintained that the Jewish future was bound up in the future of Turkey.”

Indeed, David Ben Gurion, the pioneering Zionist leader and Israel’s legendary statesman and politician, went to Constantinople in 1912 to study Turkish law at the University there. In his book of recollections, he explains: “in order to get anywhere with the Turkish authorities we needed to know the Turkish language, Turkish law and more about the Ottoman system of government.” And in fact for Ben Gurion learning Turkish law was just the beginning. “My idea was to go to Turkey, study law, and thus equip myself with the necessary professional training to stand for Parliament. I would get a seat in Parliament, and then I would become the Jewish member of the Ottoman Government…I thought that I would be close enough to the seat of power to be able to advance the development and progress of the Jews in Palestine.”


Our Jerusalem.com -