Russen zijn kwaad op het westen

[H.P.Pas]

Alleen heeft een andere betekenis in mijn zin. Alleen betekent in mijn zin, maar / echter.

OK.
Wat niet wegneemt dat jij het ook door hebt.
Ik vermoed overigens dat, pakweg, de Polen of de Balten ook wel prijs zou stellen op een bufferzone tussen hen en Rusland.
Op goed navoelbare historische gronden.

[Revisor]

OK.
Wat niet wegneemt dat jij het ook door hebt.
Ik vermoed overigens dat, pakweg, de Polen of de Balten ook wel prijs zou stellen op een bufferzone tussen hen en Rusland.
Op goed navoelbare historische gronden.

Niet ik alleen, heel veel mensen zijn deze mening toegedaan. In het Westen wordt de meningsvorm sterk vertroebeld door alle propaganda.

Ik denk dat geen ene volk bufferzone wil zijn voor andere belangengroepen.

Dit is een strijd tussen het westen en Rusland om hun bufferzones te vergroten dan wel in stand te houden, de volkeren in Oekraine mogen het bloed en de lijken leveren.

General clark:

[mark61]

Turkije,

Erdoğan is al drie keer afgezet? Bietje in de war.

[mark61]

Op 25 mei mogen ze stemmen, maar ze mogen niet stemmen voor meer autonomie voor de regio's.

Het zijn presidentsverkiezingen, geen referendum. Wie zou trouwens de tekst van dat referendum moeten opstellen?

Overigens heeft Oekraïne een presidentieel systeem, dus wie president wordt heeft grote invloed op hoe het verder gaat.

[Revisor]

Erdoğan is al drie keer afgezet? Bietje in de war.

Kwestie van goed geheugen:

Ik had het over Necmettin Erbakan ---> Refah Partesi zie ook uitspraak van Europees Hof voor de Rechten van de mens die de coup en verbod op islamitische partij door de seculiere legerleiding vergoeilijkte.

[Revisor]

Het zijn presidentsverkiezingen, geen referendum. Wie zou trouwens de tekst van dat referendum moeten opstellen?

Overigens heeft Oekraïne een presidentieel systeem, dus wie president wordt heeft grote invloed op hoe het verder gaat.

De afzetting van de vorige President ging dacht ik niet niet op democratische wijze.

Referendum etc...

Parlement Oekraïne wijst referendum af | nu.nl/buitenland | Het laatste nieuws het eerst op nu.nl

Poetin tegen separatisten: stel referendum uit - Onrust in Oekraïne - VK

[mark61]

Kwestie van goed geheugen:

Ik had het over Necmettin Erbakan ---> Refah Partesi zie ook uitspraak van Europees Hof voor de Rechten van de mens die de coup en verbod op islamitische partij door de seculiere legerleiding vergoeilijkte.

Hoe heeft het westen daar 'ingegrepen'? Niet. Klinkklare onzin.

[mark61]

De afzetting van de vorige President ging dacht ik niet niet op democratische wijze.

Referendum etc...

Parlement Oekraïne wijst referendum af | nu.nl/buitenland | Het laatste nieuws het eerst op nu.nl

Poetin tegen separatisten: stel referendum uit - Onrust in Oekraïne - VK

De president ging ervandoor. Uit eigener beweging. Dan treedt een noodscenario in werking, tenslotte moet er iemand president zijn. Maar niet getreurd, over een paar weken kunnen de Oekraïners weer kiezen.

Oh wacht, als Poetin dat toestaat, en dat tuig in het oosten. Wat ik betwijfel.

Ik weet helemaal niet of de grondwet van Oekraïne voorziet in referenda, en zo ja, hoe dat werkt. Jij wel? Nee natuurlijk.

Ik geloof niet dat Marokko erg opgezet was met een referendum in de WS Zal de grondwet ook wel niet in voorzien, magoed, of die daar geldt is nou net het probleem.

Engeland vindt afscheiding geen probleem; Spanje dan weer wel. Altijd lastig.

[Revisor]

Hoe heeft het westen daar 'ingegrepen'? Niet. Klinkklare onzin.

Het westen heeft ingegrepen via het seculiere leger.

Bijna alle islamitische landen worden via hun eigen legers onderdrukt. Deze legers zijn in handen van het Westen. Informeel via vrijmetselarij houden ze de boel onder controle en in de gaten. De Egyptische leger en Turkse leger weet ik het zeker van dat ze via vrijmetselarij (Illuminatie/Freemasoneryclubs) worden geïnstrueerd.

http://www.maroc.nl/forums/nieuws-de...ml#post5222056

Dat ligt in het verlengde van hetgeen hieronder wordt beschreven.

Few events have been more misunderstood than the Young Turkish Revolution of 1908. It was a coup d'etat carried through by a small group of men of remarkable energy and lack of scruple. Some, like Niazi Bey, who took the first open step of rebellion, perished by assassination, that two-edged weapon which he himself had so readily employed. Others, like Enver Bey, still hold the field in Turkey, having extended the principles of scientific assassination from the provinces to the capital and applied them with equal success to a Commander-in-Chief, a Grand Vizier, and an Heir-Apparent, to say nothing of many minor personages.

The Young Turks with whom Western Europe was in contact were men who had lived long in exile, divorced from Turkish life and thought, infected not so much by the true culture of the West as by the unbalanced theories of the wilder spirits of the French Revolution. Many of them enjoyed a doubtful reputation, and almost all were conspirators rather than politicians, inspired as much by motives of personal revenge and hatred as by patriotic considerations.

The revolution which they promoted was above all the work of a single town. It was in Salonica, under the shelter of its masonic lodges, that the Committee of Union and Progress, the secret organism which over threw the Hamidian regime, grew up and flourished.The real brains of the movement were Jewish or Judaeo-Moslem.

Their financial aid came from the wealthy Dunmehs and Jews of Salonica, and from the capitalists —international or semi-international—of Vienna, Budapest, Berlin, and perhaps also of Paris and London. Gradually the movement was joined by officers in the army, upon whom its organisation naturally relied for the necessary backing to their designs; and after the plot had succeeded these men found it more necessary than ever to dabble in politics, in order to
counteract the perpetual palace intrigues in favour of a restoration of the old regime.


Robert William Seton-Watson: The Rise of Nationality in the Balkans (1917)


http://www.maroc.nl/forums/nieuws-de...ml#post5222443

[Revisor]

Ukraine Protests Carefully Orchestrated: The Role of CANVAS, US-Financed “Color Revolution Training Group”

By F. William Engdahl

Global Research, March 16, 2014



The recent protests in Ukraine have the stench of a foreign-orchestrated attempt to destabilize the government of Viktor Yanukovych after he walked away from signing an EU Association Agreement that would have driven a deep wedge between Russia and Ukraine. Glamor-star boxer-turned political guru, Vitaly Klitschko, has been meeting with the US State Department and is close to Angela Merkel’s CDU political machine in Germany.
The EU association agreement with Ukraine is widely resisted by many EU member states with deep economic problems of their own. The two EU figures most pushing it—Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt and Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski—are both well known in the EU as close to Washington.

The US is strongly pushing the Ukraine EU integration just as it had been behind the 2004 failed “Orange Revolution” to split Ukraine from Russia in a bid to isolate and weaken Russia. Now Ukrainians have found evidence of direct involvement of the Belgrade US-financed training group, CANVAS behind the carefully-orchestrated Kiev protests.

A copy of the pamphlet that was given out to opposition protestors in Kiev has been obtained. It is a word-for-word and picture-for-picture translation of the pamphlet used by US-financed Canvas organizers in the 2011 Cairo Tahrir Square protests that toppled Hosni Mubarak and opened the door to the US-backed Muslim Brotherhood.[1] The photo below is a side-by-side comparison:



The photo left is from Tahrir Square; the right from Kiev and here below is the English original used by the Belgrade CANVAS NGO:


Canvas, formerly Otpor, received significant money from the US State Department in 2000 to stage the first successful Color Revolution against Slobodan Milosovic in then-Yugoslavia. Since then they have been transformed into a full-time “revolution consultancy” for the US, posing as a Serbian grass-root group backing “democracy.” [2] Who would ever think a Serbian-based NGO would be a front for US-backed regime change?

The Strange Ukraine “Opposition”



Direct sources in Kiev that I have contacted report that the anti-government protestors have been recruited with money from among university students and unemplyed to come by bus into the heart of Kiev. The revealing aspect is the spectacular emergence of champion boxed Vitaly Klitschko as presumably the wise politician guiding Ukraine’s future. No doubt spending your career beating other boxers unconscious is a superb preparation for becoming a statesman, though I for one doubt it. It reminds of the choice of a low-grade Hollywood movie actor, Ronald Reagan as President. But more interesting about “opposition” spokesman Klitschko is who his friends are.

Klitschko is being backed by US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Nuland, former US Ambassador to NATO, is a neo-conservative married to leading neo-conservative hawk, Robert Kagan, and was herself a former adviser to Dick Cheney. [3]

Klitschko is also very friendly with German Chancellor Merkel. According to a recent Der Spiegel report, Merkel wants to support Klitschko in his bid to become Ukraine’s president in 2015. [4]

More evidence that a darker agenda lies behind the “democracy” opposition is the fact that the demands of the protestors went from demanding accession to the EU to demanding the immediate resignation of the Yanukovich government. Klitschko and the opposition used an unfortunate police crackdown on protesters to massively expand the protest from a few hundred to tens of thousands. On December 18, the government took the wind partly out of the Klitschko sails by signing a major economic agreement with Moscow in which Russia agreed to cut the price of Russian gas exported to Ukraine by a third, down to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters from the current level of more than $400, and to buy $15 billion of Ukraine’s debt in eurobonds. That gives Ukraine breathing room to avoid a sovereign debt default and calmly negotiate over its future.

William Engdahl is author of A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics in the New World Order. He is a contributing author at BFP and may be contacted through his website at www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net where this article was originally published.
Notes:

[1] SysAdmin, Pamphlets in Ukraine handed out during protests and pamphlets that were handed out in Egypt, December 12, 2013, accessed in FLASHBACK: Same pamphlets in Ukraine handed out during protests in Egypt: US NGO Uncovered - 12160.
[2] Nebojsa Malic, Invasion of the Mind Snatchers: Empire’s Revolution Business, AntiWar.com, June 24, 2011, accessed in Invasion of the Mind Snatchers by Nebojsa Malic -- Antiwar.com.
[3] NTDTV,Ukrainian Opposition Vitaly Klitschko Meets US Official Victoria Nuland, December 6, 2013, accessed in .


[4] Die Zeit, Merkel unterstützt Klitschko, 8. Dezember 2013, accessed in Ukraine: Merkel unterstützt Klitschko | ZEIT ONLINE.








Ukraine Protests Carefully Orchestrated: The Role of CANVAS, US-Financed “Color Revolution Training Group” | Global Research